to think that being an escort is a valid career choice?

[whatkatydidathome]

I have a friend who is 19, unqualified and attractive. She was a lap dancer but is now considering escort work. She has tried it a few times and appears able to earn £200 an hour working for what appears to be a reputable (well as reputable as you can get I suppose!) agency in London. I have been thinking about how I feel about this (and discussing it with dh) and can see why she is doing it and I sort of think that I do think that it is a valid career choice (as long as she sticks with the agency who provide back up etc).

If, as you say, you've tried talking and reasoning till you're blue in the face but still she wants the money - well tell her to do what she likes but you know she's making a poor choice - and you're not interested in helping her choose her new csc sofa either.

OP what you have said since your OP shows that you know that in your original post YABU. You are obviously concerned for this and in your shoes I would be too, massively. I can nearly understand doing this kind of job to fund yourself through college; you're doing shit to get yourself out of shit.

But to do it as a "career"? Bloody hell, no. Okay the money's good when it comes but what is happening to your self-image, self-respect, self-love in the meantime.

OP I think if your friend doesn't do something worthwhile for herself (ie train for a real job/career) she could turn to drugs to enable her to live with herself as a prostitute (if she hasn't already). Once that happens she'll become more and more lost to you and anyone who cares.

A friend of mine was an escort for about 6months. He was someone who was proud of flauting traditional norms etc. and initially "showed off" his liberation and vastly increased wealth (compared to us other loan-maintained students), but it did his head in, in a big way, and it took him a long time to recover his self-respect/esteem.

That's not my suggestion at all KATY.

The tone of your posts is that this is a good thing. You have argued endlessly through this thread about the "morality" and the "ethics" and the "choices" available to this young woman, and all of your arguments have landed firmly on the side of " this is OK"

It ain't.

You want me to find alternatives for her?

I think you want to belittle me....and yet, despite my HIDE button not working (bitter about this much) I am still here.

If you're asking me what I would do - I would get shitloads of info about the effects of prostitution from the internet. I would get all the stats on subsequent drug addiction, the vastly higher mortality rate for prostitutes, the list of STDs that she is likely to contract via oral sex, the reality of this life - not the pretty woman/ Belle shite. (I'm sure you're about to post that you've done this)

I would then tell her that I loved her. That she was worth more than this life, that money can seem like the key to a happy life, but that the reality of money gained by a erosion of one's self is literally paper not worth writing on.

I would tell her that the things she holds dear are within a moment of being broken.

And then I would tell her that her that I had organised someone for her to talk to, and I would tell her that if she respected me, that she would keep the appointment I had made, and then...well then I could look in the mirror in the morning and think "I did my best"

not "I let her do that"

i'll probably get flamed for this but i think of each to their own. It may well be a questionable career choice but i wouldnt judge someone by this alone.

I would just hope that she is as safe as she possibly can be and gets all the proper std checks done regularly.

I have arrived - I have been waiting for you dittany...

I think it's a dangerous profession which can sometimes be entered into without too much thought. It can do serious psychological damage if you aren't prepared for it.

For that reason, I'd say no.

I'm not phoning up agencies for her (but I am beginning to understand more about mumsnet ). As I have said it is not a choice that I'd make and I have tried to talk her out of it. I also don't quite see how I (or her mother for that matter) can be called a pimp. I helped find her a room, helped get her a job. She decided that she did not want to live in a room and do a low paid job as it did not bring in enough money. So she started to work lapdancing - and now is escorting.

it seems to me that rather than face tha fact that life is not as cosy and perfect for all as we'd like it to be some people tend to look for someone to "blame" for everything and want to somehow prove that everything can be "fixed". Well actualy it cannot.

I wonder if the OP's real problem is that she is aware she can't force this 19-year-old to stop working in the sex industry - the girl is legally an adult and having sex in exchange for money is not in itself illegal.
It is risky, of course, but it sounds as though, for now, the girl is aware of the risks and minimizing them by using an agency she trusts. (The statistics on the dangers of sex work are a little bit skewed as they don't seem to differentiate between street work and escorting - women who are working on the street are invariably the most vulnerable and the most at risk.)
Right now I would suggest as I did upthread that the OP advises the girl to contact IUSW, where she will hopefully be able to meet other sex workers who are not trafficked, who have made a conscious choise to work in the industry, and who can give her practical advice and non-condeming support.
If this story is true (and OK I have a few doubts myself, particularly about the army red herring - note to OP, other options might have included working for doorstep loan sharks, or drug dealing) it's plausible that a girl who feels unloved and rejected could decide that sex work is a good option for her and that this girl would be angry and resentful at attempts to make her stop doing it. So cunselling ,therapy, telling her it's wrong and wicked, locking her up etc, isn't going to work, or help her at all. This is why I suggest she talks with other willing sex workers about her future etc and sees it as something to do as a short-term income generator: plenty of women do this and survive unscathed as long as they can stay off drugs and keep an eye on their longterm plans.

Thank you again SGB - I did not realise that there was an issue with the army - I mainly lurk on the SN threads and the army doesn't crop up much there so apologise if I have fallen into a pit with that one

WFS: So what do you suggest the OP actually does for this girl?

Katy.

People on MN will tend to get very upset if you see an issue like this as not being entirely black and white.

Oddly enough you'd be better off arguing that prostitution is fabulous!

I expect those three poor women in Bradford started off as naive 19 yo's who thought they could cope with the utter degradation of selling your body to awful men.

There is a horrible escalation isn't there...you don't need a crystal ball to predict this girl's future

She started lapdancing, got greedy for a "lifestyle", wants to progress to "escorting" (prostitution), to cope with the psychological nightmare of that she will use drugs, gets older/uglier, her prices will drop....onto the streets she goes

OP, you will never justify some of your statements to me...nor to anyone with any true regard for the life of that damaged girl

I think WFS set out her stall pretty clearly a few posts back:

"If you're asking me what I would do - I would get shitloads of info about the effects of prostitution from the internet. I would get all the stats on subsequent drug addiction, the vastly higher mortality rate for prostitutes, the list of STDs that she is likely to contract via oral sex, the reality of this life - not the pretty woman/ Belle shite. (I'm sure you're about to post that you've done this)

I would then tell her that I loved her. That she was worth more than this life, that money can seem like the key to a happy life, but that the reality of money gained by a erosion of one's self is literally paper not worth writing on.

I would tell her that the things she holds dear are within a moment of being broken.

And then I would tell her that her that I had organised someone for her to talk to, and I would tell her that if she respected me, that she would keep the appointment I had made, and then...well then I could look in the mirror in the morning and think "I did my best"

not "I let her do that" "

OP just read through the whole thread, and am wondering what you will do next?

I hope you tell her that her'choice' is morally repugnant, has inherent risks and will not lead onto a career.

She sounds damaged enough already by her experiences growing up, without adding prostitution into this mix, and probably lacks any moral compass.

Doubt she'll listen though.

SGB having slept on this I've realsied that you are right in that the key thing that drove me to post is that I have realsied that I cannot stop her doing this and this fact is something that I need to come to terms with.
She has been give all the info - we (her grandmother and I) tried hard to talk her out of the lap dancing as well as this. However she wants the kind of money that only this kind of work will bring in if you are unqualified and 19.
At one point she wanted to be a journalist so I tried to get her a voluntary post on a local paper - only she refused to do that saying that she did not want to work for a local rag making coffee. We discussed "working your way up" etc but she point blank refused to consider it. I have also talked to her about training etc but whilst it may seem amazing to many people here actually lots of 19 year olds think that being an accountant, or a teacher, or a police woman etc is very boring; and that settling down in the suburbs with a couple of kids and a range rover is a fate worse than death. Her asperations are basically to be a "celebrity" of some kind (and yes I have suggested the various routes into this - again she will not "work her way up"; and the Big Brother application failed ). She does not want a traditonal middle class lifestyle; she wants glitz and glamour and parties; and she has discovered how she can get this. I suspect that she is not the only 19 year old making these choices for these reasons.
If you want a reason or something to "blame" then I suspect that it is the way in which the media (and last government) attacked the middle classes, creating an environment in which people think that the "high earners" are paid for nothing. She really does not believe that hard work is wht gets you anywhere. She thinks that the kind of lifestyle that she wants, and that she sees others having, is hers by right and should be handed to her on a plate partly because this is how the media presents it.

Actually, the only thing that might get through to this girl in that case is that engaging in sex work will work against her chances of becoming a celebrity. Heidi Fleiss may have made it onto Celebrity Big Brother but a) only after having spent time in prison and b) it didn;t do her any good anyway.
I wonder if what she really has her eye on is WAGdom (and I do think that the way the media has invented this 'class' of women as something to aspire to is far, far more damaging than the likes of Belle De Jour in the utter passivity it promotes to women - turn yourself completely into an object and don't even get paid for it). But a WAG who is discovered to have been a sex worker will get slaughtered in the press and dumped by whichever man she has hooked up with (who will be treated as a hero whatever).

I still don't think that what she is doing, if she is working at the level you describe (rich clients, glamorous parties etc) is immoral - why shouldn't she get paid for her time and enthusiasm? However, it's risky, not least because of the way sex work is so stigmatized.
THough I am slightly boggled that she thinks sex work isn't work. To do it safely and successfully does require a fair amount of time and effort.

Good point SGB - will try this angle

How long could she have possibly been a lapdancer if she's only 19 now. Either you don't mind assisting your friend tread down a road that can be very risky for sexual/physical attack or you are lying and have made this up....noone could be as stupid and naive.

Career choice, the mind boggles about how wide 'career' stretches.

I'm sorry that this poor girl has had a poor deal out of life - but if she continues as an escort I'm afraid it will go further downhill.

I found out recently that a school friend (who I lost touch with a few years ago) has died in her 40's due to her lifestyle choices. She worked as an "escort" out of a soho club in her late teens. She took up with drug dealers, lived with "dodgy" blokes, and was on the "bimbo party circuit" - she told me of the semi-famous men she had met - how she could have been their their "assistants" (for sex).

What a terrible waste.

Katy, I know you have tried hard to help, she needs to get back to a normal life. Surely, convictions are spent after so many years?

She started lap dancing at 17.

One thing that amazes me is how out of touch with waht life is like for some people that some posters here are. Yes she has had a bad time, and yes it may be outside the experience of many people here to have been thown out of home at 16, lap danced at 17 and taken a job as an escort at 19 but actually it is not so outside the realms of possibility that I must have made it up - do you not realise how many young girls (and boys) are on the streets and/or working in the sex industry? Or is it simply that you cannot believe that anyone daring to post to mumnet will have any contact with this section of humanity . I'm sorry but I don't get it - why must I have "made it up"?

Katy,

I don't think you're making it up. You've been trying hard to help her by doing practical things such setting up work experience etc.

The point I didn't get across is that her life will go further downhill, and she may die before her time - drug overdose, suicide - hepatitis - if she can't return to some sort of 'normal' life. The longer she leaves it the harder it will be.

It sounds like you are one of the few people who are trying to help her and have her longterm interests at heart. Her mum and step-father don't.

Lap dancing at 17, legal?

And re. one of your earlier posts I would move3 someone in with me rather than them prostitute themselves.

Her parents have failed her massively.