to not want a male worker to take my daughter to the toilet?

[DebiDean]

Hi there,

My daughter wet herself in the nursery toilets yesterday, when I asked her about it at dinner she mentioned that it was a male worker who took her to the toilet. I spoke to a few friends about it who had different opinions about whether it was right or wrong (opinion was a 50/50 split!) and I decided that as I wasn't comfortable with the idea that I would contact the nursery and explain that I would rather a female worker take her to the toilet.

I was very clear with the nursery that I was supportive of having male role models within the nursery however I felt that to maintain my daughters dignity it would be more appropriate for a female worker to take her to the toilet.

I had a rather rude reply accusing me of being discriminative and that they would refuse to discriminate against him.

I was so shocked as I do support men working with children, but felt there should be limitations within that, or the nursery should at least consider my wishes (especially as it costs me £45 a day!!!).

Whats the opinion? Any ideas of what I could/should do?

Posie and Jamiki do you allow your childs fathers to do personal care. By your reasoning they could have paedophile tendencies as they are men and should not do this, so thus wait for you or another female to change them! My dh has changed my dd and washed her when she is mucky, so he should have not doen that, but left her with poo until i came back from shopping to do this!

Statistics also show that parents of either sex are far more likely to kill a child than unrelated adults. Does that mean that no child should ever be cared for by its natural parents, because the risks are so much greater that way? Or simply that statistics may not be the best guide to the individual situation?

this is the reason we dont have many men working with children, i read a study when i was training to be a early years pratitioner that said having a good male role model helped some boys that didnt have one at home and having men around to show them how a man behaves (iyswim) could help some boys with behavioural problems... (obviously girls need good male role models as well but the study was about boys)

if the nursery worker was gay would it make a difference? should he then not be allowed to work with boys?

anybody can be a peadophile.. lets keep our children in slings until the are 16, saves all this bother..

This certainly won't help public opinion, I think a lot unsuitible people work in nurseries and they've become too big an industry.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1281438/Nursery-worker-hit-swore-toddler-wet-himself.html#comments

Whoa there. Noone is suggesting that the man is a child abuser, however it's all about risk and comfort zones. My ds has a male teacher, all others have females. Would I be more inclined to have no fears at all about my ds stuck at school with a female teacher alone, late at night? yes. Is this fair to the male teacher? Probably not.
Woud I be more likely to question certain situations more with a man than a woman? Yes.

Sometimes the PCness of MN goes way too far. I safeguard my dcs as much as possible and do not share my gender bias when it comes to fear....

All of you that are telling the OP she's wrong, would you rather share an empty carriage on a late night train with a woman or a man you didn't know?

Missus84, were you referring to big nurseries, where the parents haven't met teh supply or agency staff ? because for both my ds's they have no supply or agency care. or either of the 2 nurseries i used and use. same workers for years and years. but then it is relatively small.

posieparker - the relative risk from a monitored member of staff in a controlled environment and a total stranger in an uncontrolled one are not comparable.

posie, i don't get the comparison. scared of ds's being stuck in at night ? how is that relevant ?
and to think it is all of US that has gone a bit PC mad ? You think you are being rational and it is us who are all over-reacting ? is that it ?

I haven't read the whole thread but YABVU and discriminative.

My daughter has had male tutors at various times in her life. It doesn't even cross my mind that they should not have helped her with going to the loo etc.......

That comparison cannot be made Posie, the man in the carriage is a stranger, this worker is an employee who has the right skills, training, and qualifications for the job, or he would not be there. Its not about pc at all, its about stigmatising men. So men cannot be nursery workers or teachers because they have paedophile tendencies and would do something bad, so they should stick to science and engineering.

All of you that are telling the OP she's wrong, would you rather share an empty carriage on a late night train with a woman or a man you didn't know?
Posie, i wouldn't mind either. really.

posie, sorry, maybe, am i speaking out of turn here ? we you abused too ? i see ypu around alot, but i don't know enough about your history to understand your paranoia.

Jamiki- you do know that never letting your children out the front door will help eliminate the risk of them ever being hit by a car? Maybe consider that too!

My 4yr old DD 'flashes her tuppence' at every opportunity. She loves being naked and is always getting her kit off. Nobody (that I know of) has ever suggested to me that it's unnatural or that she'll grow up to be a bit of a slapper!

Not abused no, but I was molested by a stranger when I was seven, my friend was flashed at (by a local magistrate and so not investigated) when she was nine.

I don't understand my paranoia either. But when the recent case of the two children murdered in Spain came up me and DH talked about it. My Ds's teacher is a really lovely man and incredibly attentive and then I started thinking well if he did want to abuse my dcs we are all be suitably groomed. Now whilst I have no reason to think anything other than wonderful things about this man, I began to mistrust my own judgement. I know it's discrimatory(sp) because I wouldn't think the same of a woman. A school friend's step siblings were abused by a very nice man, a newish friend of the family. He groomed the whole family, started with drinks with the step father, then coffees with the sahm, then she would pop to the shops.....

And I don't think men/boys are paedophiles but there are different protocols for each. And until the same amount of men as women care for children it will remain the same.

Excuse typos....my keyboard is shocking.

Oblomov - well, any nursery might have to use supply staff if they couldn't otherwise cover staff absences on a particular day. Or a nursery can employ new staff, or move staff between rooms, without consulting every parent to check they like the new people. Or have students in. If you send a child to nursery you are trusting that the nursery hire the right people - if you want to choose an individual to care for your child then use a nanny or childminder.

Parents have the right not to send their child to a particular nursery if they don't want to risk them being cared for by a male, or gay or black nursery nurse - but they have no right to dictate to the nursery which staff members care for their child.

I hate to say it but I wouldn't be happy with this either - I have several unpleasant experiences with grown men (no women) as a child and I wouldn't want to take the risk with my dd. I am therefore pretty vigilant about who she spends time with and who helps her with what based on my own instincts.

Maybe I am wrong but my experiences in life have led me to feeling this way.

posieparker, didn't you miss something about that case in Spain: though the father was a known paedophile, it was the mother who confessed to having suffocated her children, wasn't it? Alone and without his help or knowledge. In fact, there have plenty of cases of women murdering their children ofr various reasons. For a start, not all the Munchausen cases were actually constructed by overzealous consultants: there have been enough well authenticated cases of women poisoning their own children, sometimes in absolutely horrendous ways.

So do you think that would give your dh the right to start mistrusting you, just because other women have been proved to hurt or murder their children? After all, you could have him well groomed to think you are a caring mother when you are only waiting for the opportunity to start hurting your child? Other women do it, so why not you?

Do you feel implicated as a woman, by this woman suffocating her children? Do you think it should mean men shouldn't trust you with their children?

Isn't it simply that we are not yet used to the idea?

Yes, it was just another paedophile part that fuelled my conversation. Have to say that we did discuss the prospect that I could be abusing our children and DH wouldn't know, such is the nature of abuse. We concluded that you don't trust anyone, you safeguard your dcs.

So how does your dh safeguard his kids from you then if he doesn't trust you? Are you not allowed to be alone with them? After all, this woman did suffocate her children when left alone with them- how does he know you won't?

I have only read the first and last pages. I assume someone somewhere has asked about the child's Dad? Is the OP worried about her DD's father taking her to the loo as well, or does that not impact on her dignity at all?

I think the nursery in question were right to refuse to discriminate against the male worker - how would it make him feel?