to not want a male worker to take my daughter to the toilet?

[DebiDean]

Hi there,

My daughter wet herself in the nursery toilets yesterday, when I asked her about it at dinner she mentioned that it was a male worker who took her to the toilet. I spoke to a few friends about it who had different opinions about whether it was right or wrong (opinion was a 50/50 split!) and I decided that as I wasn't comfortable with the idea that I would contact the nursery and explain that I would rather a female worker take her to the toilet.

I was very clear with the nursery that I was supportive of having male role models within the nursery however I felt that to maintain my daughters dignity it would be more appropriate for a female worker to take her to the toilet.

I had a rather rude reply accusing me of being discriminative and that they would refuse to discriminate against him.

I was so shocked as I do support men working with children, but felt there should be limitations within that, or the nursery should at least consider my wishes (especially as it costs me £45 a day!!!).

Whats the opinion? Any ideas of what I could/should do?

"Jamiki You do know that the majority of sex offenders working in nurseries have been women?"

Change 'in nurseries' for 'in situations where they are in positions of authority and/or close proximity to children' and back that up with figures, please.

Is it really that unbelievable that maybe some women feel uncomfortable that their child is taken to the toilet by an unfamiliar male? Really? Whether because of fears of abuse or because their own personal moral and cultural framework makes them feel uncomfortable with a male tending to the intimate needs of a female?

As I stated, I understand the feeling but won't personally act on it because my personal moral and cultural framework tells me that it is important that my child feels safe with members of both sexes and doesn't feel toileting is inherently dirty or sexual. However, I am able to see that everyone views this differently.

Parents choose and frame their children's culture based on their own. How are the child's needs actually served by having the male worker take them to the toilet better than they would be if the nursery complied with the parent's wishes? What about her role as a consumer?

I think, arguably, if the OP is so uncomfortable with it and it continues she could take to asking questions of her child like 'did anything happen when you were in the toilet with Mr. X' that would be more damaging. I saw a mum ask her son a similar question when he was in the toilets at Sainsbury's and she was waiting at the door and didn't respond to her when she called him to come out initially (did anything happen in there? Did you talk to anyone? Do you feel okay?). This would certainly not be in the child's interests.

I was very uncomfortable around other children when I was young, particularly after being bullied at school. In fact, I can still feel my stomach knotting when I have to pass a group of teens or pre-teens in the street. My own dcs are very sociable and expect everybody to be their friend. I would hate it if I felt I had projected my own experience ("other children will hurt you") onto their totally different lives.

They have other difficulties which I never had to cope with; they don't need mine.

in all honesty, i would feel the same way as DD.

i doubt she's against male nursery workers per se but is more concerned that her daughter was obviously uuncomfortable and if given heads up that a male nursery worker may be taking her daughter to the toilet, OP could have had a chance to prepare her for it. after all most boys and girls of that age's main carer is usually female. it's a more unusual situation for a male outside the immediate family to take them for a pee.

i'd be concerned that the child's feelings were less important than taking a stance against perceived bigotry.

OB...why is Riven's case different? Because the risk is greater? Are we saying that because the risk is smaller it's okay to take?

I don't understand, we either agree with OP and Riven or neither.

And girls bits are internal and so wiping and so on will be much more intimate.

And iiiifff a man wanted to abuse children I wonder where he would work?

Anyway I thoroughly understand the OP's POV.

"If concerns are voiced then management needs to reassure parents or put further safeguards in place not prevent the guy from doing what he is paid to do. "

This is a very sensible post. Exactly.
The fact that there are chaperones for male professionals in my Trust does not mean that everyone assumes that all male GP's and HCPs are abusing scoundrels. It's merely a safeguard to sensitivity which is keenly felt, regardless of whether those of us who come from a different cultural viewpoint agree with the perspectives of our clients.

It is not for me, as a HCP, to judge why or why not individuals feel uncomfortable with male doctors/midwives/support workers - they are the consumer and the Trust recognises this and adapts services accordingly.

If this mum is uncomfortable with a stranger and/or a lone man or woman taking her child to the toilet, then that needs to be treated with seriousness and sensitivity and some adjustments may need to be made.

Some of you women stun me with how U you are being.

Sex offenders are PREDOMINANTLY male, not female therefore if your child is going to be tampered with there is a upwards of 75% chance it will be by a male.

So there goes your "What if it was a woman taking a boy to the toilet, rubbish".

How soon you forget all the posts in regards to unreasonable men are. Men are men and women are women, they are not the same, they are different.

Do you not read the paper about the scout leaders, teachers, priests, music, swimming, and sports teachers that insinuate themselves into those positions of employment for the very reason of getting close to children for that purpose.

Yes, so A woman was charged somewhere recently, thats one. Find the stats for the men you can be pretty sure there will be 8 or 9 men for every 1 woman charged with child sex offences. And a good percentage of women charged are heavily involved with a man doing the same thing.

No one said that the man in question was a paedophile.

What is wrong with a mother trying to protect her defenceless child in her absence even at the risk of hurting the feelings of a man she doesn't know (Yeah, a man she doesn't know, what happened to identifying with other women, mothers).

So, yeah ladies, just pretend this shit doesn't happen, because of course it could never possibly happen in a nursery could it? Almost as bizarre as thinking it could happen in a church or funnily enough in a home with people you know.

Don't blame the OP for trying to protect her child.

When your daughter comes to you at 18 with a story you don't want to hear maybe you could think back to how liberal your views were in regards to MEN YOU DON"T KNOW.

I was accused of being sick by a poster on here by suggesting that the op might think that the nursery worker was a paedophile the way she was talking about it. No I was not, she did say something along the lines that she did not want her daughters truppeny on display to the male worker doing the toilet duty, and was giving the wrong messages to her, now thats sick thinking implying that all male nursery workers have an ulterior motive, to ogle little girls bits.

They are there to do a job, the worker will not be in the toilet with her, but outside most probebly waiting to see if she needs any help. The op by doing this and making her dd weary of men is giving her pfb wrong messages. I used to do work experience at a nursery and there was a fantastic male nursery worker there. Its the attitude shown by the op and some others on here, which put men off teaching and nursery work. Sad state of affaires.

actually the biggest threat is MEN YOU DO KNOW

and teaching shame early means you are more likely to hear the story at 18. Abolishing shame makes it more likely you may hear at 7 and stop it.

I am sorry but YABU

There is more likelyhood of your daughter being abused by her dad/grandad/uncle/cousin/family friend then a stranger or worker at nursery.

Jamiki - I wouldn't want any child of mine to go to a nursery where I thought there were sex offenders among their staff, male or female. Most children are abused by people they know. If it's men who are most likely to do it, do you leave your children alone with grandad? Their uncle? Their brother? They are far, far more likely to abuse your DC than a nursery worker

Jamiki I am shocked at your post sorry I am. Its people like you that scaremonger and paint all men to be paedophiles. what about women, there was a big case a few months ago about a woman nursery worker who led a paeophile ring, and abused children in here care. Its this myth that women dont abuse, that they are nurturing and caring and would not dream of it that is wrong. Women do abuse, I have read many stories whereby women have abused their daughters or female relatives. Poor Anna Climbe for example

I am glad the nursery stuck up for their employee he did nothing wrong considering the child wet herself i guess she had to be rushed to the toilet her normal careers may have busy with the other children. The man may not normally work in that girls class but he is still an employee there and it is his job to ensure the welfare of the children there. It's not like it is the same guy taking the girl to the toilet each time it was only once.

And also from the way the OP later commented the child had issues with her not knowing him because he works in another class not because he was male. I also saw her comment when people asked her if she would request her son to be (Congrats OP )to have a male do those jobs for him to 'maintain his dignity' she said she "supposes" obviously she just has an issue with the guy being male not to mention there may not even be any male workers there due to this negative attitude to all men being around children and pay.

It would not have been wrong to call the nursery and say i would prefer to have the careers in my daughters class to take her to the toilet.

And MrsBean were not talking about all positions of power since this is only in reference of nurseries why go on to use examples which don't even apply?

And others that you dont hear about

Male to female ratio of paedophiles is 15:1.

Many small children respond differently to men.

Why is it so outrageous to suggest a man would be less appropriate than a woman, in this circumstance?

Again, if you did want to abuse children where would you work? CRB checks mean fuck all if you've never been caught.

Posie where would a woman work if she wanted to abuse, a nursery thats right

Oh posie, I am shocked at your attitude. Its attidudes like this that now any man is deemed to be a paedophile and that you cannot take pictures of your little ones in public in case of paedophillia.

If you are that worried about your child being cared for my a man or a stranger DON'T SEND THEM TO NURSERY!

The set up in a nursery means that parents aren't going to have met and approved of every person that cares for their child. The children are going to be cared for (including nappy changes and toileting) by people they are less familiar with - sometimes even agency supply staff.

If you want to choose the person caring for your child, and control who they come into contact with - use a childminder or a nanny.

Posieparker and how many of those men are actually strangers to the girl and family thats right a small number.

I worked in care and there were some fantatic male support workers there.

Sammy- IIRC (am not trawling back through pages to check though!) the little girl wet herself because she was placed in the situation of being accompanied by a male nursery worker...which to me, is the weirdest thing of all...that this child is so petrified of men (wonder why????) that she wets herself. That would be an issue I'd be concerned with if I was the mother.

Jamiki- I pity your poor daughter(s) I really do. As I said to the OP- hope you've got an industrial quantity of cotton wool as well.

I think nursery is the wrong place for the op to send her child as shock horror there could be a male nursery worker.

Exactly Bucharest, the op has already made her daughter have issues with men (sorry i did not know how to put it properly) What is she going to do when she is grown up and shock horror gets intimate with a man and shows her truppeny to him . The dd of the op might have issues with that in relationships

Just because he is a male member of staff doesn't make him any less able to do the job properly.
You are discriminating against this poor chap.

...15 pages....

so did she go to nursery today? How was it?

Posie - It IS outrageous to suggest a man would be less appropriate than a woman, in this circumstance just because the Male to female ratio of paedophiles is 15:1, because that figure is COMPLETELY irrelevant.

The figure you need to look at is what the chance of a female nursery worker as opposed to a male nursery worker being an abuser.

Which is (no. of female nursery workers who are abusers)/(no. of female nursery workers) versus (no. of male nursery workers who are abusers)/(no. of male nursery workers).