to wonder who Oliver James is? working mothers look away!

[Chulita]

Here Sorry if there's a thread on it already, I just read this and was a bit

Um... Well to a certain extent a woman's life choices ARE mapped out because she has a vagina. Periods, being the only one of the two sexes who can give birth, that kinda thing...

Not all, though, she can become Prime Minister of this country if she wishes, she can become the editor of a national newspaper.

sunshine, in my experience of childcare workers most are like yourself. Lots of people get uppity about it to justify their own choices which is a bit daft because there is no evidence to say kids are worse off in childcare...

I carried on working after I had the DC. Not because I had to, financially, but because I wanted to. I am glad that I did because, as azazello says, it is difficult to keep up to date and to get back to the same pay level if you take some years off.
My DC went to nursery and it doesn't seem to have done them any harm. The staff did a good job looking after them: perhaps because they, too, enjoyed their jobs?

high-fives sunshine2010

Marantha - 'Someone on minimum wage is really going to give your child as much attention to your child isn't she? (Not).'

I cant believe these comments marantha. I am a nursery worker on 6 pound an hour and working at the nursery is my life. Its a vocation and you do it for the love as do all my colleagues. I spend my weekends curriculum planning and buying resources. I am in early and late most days working for free to do displays and set things up for the kids. I have a degree in childhood studies but still chose this job over teaching for the love of it. All my colleagues are the same and everyone of those children is individual to me and special. I am only in my twenties as well so I dont think you know what you are talking about really.

what have periods got to do with choices..

ok, so if i choose to have children with my partner I have to be the one that squeezes the blighter out. But from there on... i cant see why any of my choices are mapped out..

You on the otherhand seem to think your ownership of fanjo makes you better at caring for children and less able than your husband at earning money.

Sunshine, your workplace sounds fantastic and staffed with people I would trust with my children, but as you know lots aren't. I think the prejudice against babies in nurseries is based on the fear that there will be a constant change in caregivers and that they will not be highly motivated to promote healthy relationships.

Good for you sunshine2010...that applies to nurses too!!!My kids have loved nursery and i work part time for money to have a broader life and enjoy a few extras!! Life is too short to not live it to the full. Oliver James sounds a complete cock...a crowing one at that!

sunshine makes a good point. Its not only for loads of financial reward that people do things.

True, but if people DON'T have to work when their children are babies (not of school age. I don't see why mum can't get a job when children are in full-time education)then I do wonder, why the hell have them if all you want to do is hand them over to someone else to care for when they are babies.
What's the point?
Are they are status symbols or something?

I read the times article.

Although I don't agree with all that he says however:

a) the point about stress in pregnancy affecting the unborn baby even after birth (although not sure about ADHD though) is well researched - Robert Winston did a study on it too showing the same - stressed mothers produced stressed babies and children so don't see this as being controversial.

b) re: childcare - is there really anyone here that really believes (for under 2s) that a nursery is a preferable option to one on one care by parent/grandparent or nanny? Clearly not everyone has that option for various reasons but again don't really see that this is so controversial. I work and have used both nursery and nanny. When DD was at nursery (aged 6 months) she had permanent nappy rash as they changed nappies at set times . The carers were poorly qualified, smoked (on their breaks). This was a big nursery chain in London for care that cost, even 6 years ago £50 a day. I sure some nurseries are much much better but its still 1:3.

c) Naughty step - he doesn't like it - well I do but I respect that its not everyone's thing.

What does 'have to' mean though. Now that DP has been made redundant boy am I glad I kept my job. I probably resented working more than most but it is a neccessary evil I feel. You have to play a long game with employment. I don't want to be a financial burden on my kids when I reach retirement age.

Marantha, that doesn't really make sense. As you know there are many reasons for women working when they have young children and otjers have written about some of these.

Does no one here think it's odd that fathers aren't mentioned? As I said before, my Dh changed his job so that he could share child care with me when I returned to full time work. Did anyone else here have proper discussions with their male partners?

Marantha, its about balance and trying your best to achieve what is best for your family. Equality doesn't mean going out to work or staying at home, it's surely about mutual respect for the roles within a family. Everything in moderation...working as a team and trying to be fulfilled. And it is a complete myth that it's easier to go to work when the kids are at school....I have 4 and I work part time and working round school is harder than when they had flexible hours at nursery.

Marantha, your husband hands your baby over to you to carefor while hes at work. Is your child some kind of status symbol to him?

mumnwlondon - If there was a variety of nurseries in teh area then you would see they wouldnt all be the same. 5 out of 10 staff at my nursery are qualified to degree level, we are all non smokers, we change them whenever they need to, they get 3 meals, all nappies in, suncream provided etc for £29 a day

"why the hell have them if all you want to do is hand them over to someone else to care for when they are babies."

Because I find 24/7-babydom boring but, luckily, babies don't stay babies for very long. I had children because I wanted sentient beings to have a relationship with, over several decades.

Made me laugh Foureleven, but it underlines my point. Whose male partners and fathers of their children SERIOUsLY thought about changing their jobs or work practices to share care as far as possible?

I don't really understand why there is such a fixation on what mothers do or don't do.

I think the fact that my children spend a lot of time with my friends and neighbours, and with their aunts, uncles, grandparents and great grandparents has far more of an impact on their wellbeing than whether or not I go out to work or not.

Havent read whole thread, but want to add my tuppence worth.

1. I could afford to stay at home with my 2 DS's but choose not to and have returned to work 3 days a week.
2. I could afford a nanny, but have chosen a nursery setting over a nanny for many reasons. Although I am very fortunate to have a lovely small family run nursery around the corner.
3. This person is totally entitled to his view, and if papers want to print it, so be it. Couldn't really give a monkeys.

Every family and every child is different.

1. I know that it would not be good for me or my DS's to be at home 7 days a week. I don't possess the patience. Does that mean I shouldn't have had children? If some of you believe that, fine. I obviously disagree.
2. Having grafted to get good qualifications/ a good job and quite senior within my career - I have no intention of walking away from it. Having something to focus on other than my children is I believe healthy for them and healthy for me.
3. If I was to give up work to stay at home with my boys, then I think it would be too much for them and too much for me.

I read the articles about the potential harm a nursery environment can make to a child under the age of 2; but made the educated decision to do what I felt was right. If this (and other) articles are correct, then one day I may regret my choices.

Articles like this are like water of a ducks back to me, and I think they should be for others also.

"First of all, the fact you beleive you know that it is better for mother to stay at home with children can only point to the fact that you are in fact a bit daft.

No intelligent person claims that an opinion that they hold is 100% correct without any evidence.

Also with regards to childcare workers not being able to provide the same level of love for children... this is probably true. However, please explain to me why it is necessary for a child to be in the presence of someone who adores them to the extent that their mother does 24 hours a day? "

Dearie, are you really this dim or trolling a bit?
Takes all sorts I suppose....

Umm.. dont get it rollmops.. which bit cause it seems like everyone else on here bar maratha agrees with me..

Also with regards to childcare workers not being able to provide the same level of love for children... this is probably true. However, please explain to me why it is necessary for a child to be in the presence of someone who adores them to the extent that their mother does 24 hours a day? "

Dearie, are you really this dim or trolling a bit?
Takes all sorts I suppose....

Rollmops have no idea who posted that originally. But I guess I am also dim as I tend to agree with the statement "please explain to me why it is necessary for a child to be in the presence of someone who adores them to the extent that their mother does 24 hours a day?"

Why is it? I dont believe that it is healthy for my DS to be glued to me 24/7...

Mistletoes, I have a very similar approach to you.

Just some points I would like to make:

• anyone who gives up their career to raise pre-school children is making themselves financial vulnerable. Unless they just aspire to minimum wage jobs.

• I preferred the nursery my dcs attend to having my mother stay with me and look after my dd - which she very kindly did for 6 months. But my dd received better care at nursery and more stimulation.

• I prefer a nursery to a nanny. Seems to me a nanny provides care as variable as that of any other mother behind closed doors. The screening process is not perfect. That being the case, the checks and balances and more hands to the pump at a nursery worked very well for my dcs.

• My nursery manager uses the nursery for both her sons, from baby-age. As does the head of the baby unit. Make of that what you will.

• I don't believe children need to be with people who adore them 24/7. They just need responsive care and an interesting environment. That is very easily achievable at a good nursery and a good family environment.

i have used nursery since 6mth for my children.i am not solely defined by motherhood.i love working too.i always knew i work be mum and maintain working too.had my nursery place booked at 12wk pg