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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to wonder who Oliver James is? working mothers look away!

510 replies

Chulita · 22/05/2010 12:06

Here Sorry if there's a thread on it already, I just read this and was a bit

OP posts:
JamieOliver · 20/08/2010 22:38

Oliver James for example, is a twat.

And not me.

theSilverSurfer · 01/10/2010 09:14

There is a fantastic both by Sue Gerhardt
called "Why Love Matter" and to summaries

The Brain is a chemicial melting pot and is underformation upto the age of 7-8.

When a Child surfer emotional truama this causes chemicals to be released, part of the noraml defense mechanism, but if this trauma is persistant it can harm the functioning of the brain.

This is why its importtant for children to get love form both parent, mummy and daddy.

ADHD has many causes genetic maybe and nurture and upbringing. The rise in ADHD has also parellelled the raise in family breakdown which causes trauma for very young children. So part of the spetrum of ADHD sufferers may well be attributed to this fact.

BoysAreLikeDogs · 01/10/2010 09:26

okaaaaaay

a chemical melting pot - that's a new one to me

emotional trauma - presumably you are referring to cortisol

love from both parents - what if there is a death in the family unit

ADHD - um you need to tread very carefully here

cory · 01/10/2010 09:33

Too many uncertainties here. Correlation is not the same as causal dependency.

What do we know about the rise in family breakdown insofar as it means breakdown in love? Do we know there is actually more family trauma to children now than 40, or 140, years ago?

(You cannot make a simple equation between divorce/splitting up and lack of love/trauma. An unhappy marriage or uncaring but respectably married parents can be equally traumatic: a divorce can be carried through in a way that puts the children first and does not deprive them of the love of either parent. They didn't have much divorce in the Victorian era but from my family history I know of some seriously dysfunctional families, where children missed out on loving nurture because noone had the emotional energy to provide it)

Do we know how much of the rise in ADHD is simply the result of better awareness/diagnostic methods?
(can think of a fair few of my school friends who were simply thought of as "odd" or "difficult")

The rising divorce rate is not the only way in which society has changed in recent years. There are all sorts of other changes, such as earlier school start, fewer chances for children to run off energy, more pollutants, different food production methods, more exposure to additives, more vaccinations etc etc.

You need a method to work out probabilities; otherwise people are just going to be picking something they dislike about modern society and say "look this has gone up and ADHD has gone up- it's got to be a cause".

cory · 01/10/2010 09:35

Otherwise, you end up like Oliver James who blames all the ills of society on something he was unhappy about in his life. You can feel very sad for him, but it's not science.

theSilverSurfer · 01/10/2010 09:52

Please read the book firstit is very good

chapter 10 is very good and she states
tha although she talked about women and love for children this also is the same for fathers and the love of their children

theSilverSurfer · 01/10/2010 09:58

what I think should happen is some far reaching research shold be done to find out what that effect is.

Have spoken to many child counciler that have told me they are acting out their anger of being denied the love of one of their parents.

I have a nice and also a stepdauther that have both been traumatised by not having a relationship with their father. One is ADHD diagonsed and has had berivement councilling to try to get her to understand that her dad is not in her life, even though he is only 2 miles away with his new family.

if the research is done then I sure it will show that a percent will have been caused by emotional trauma after family breakdown. what percentage I do not know but a guess would put well over 25%

theSilverSurfer · 01/10/2010 10:00

I do not need to tread carefully what needs to happen is that people need to open their minds to new thinking.

PTSD is caused by many things all of which need different action plans to make the patient well again. The same may go for ADHD but to just dismiss to to repeat the errors of history

theSilverSurfer · 01/10/2010 10:08

You can also argue too that the love from grandparents is a significant factor too.

As increasingly children are seen as the property of the mother only.

It is as if the mother can only determine what is wrong with their child and no other can interfer in this process not even specialists

NomDePlume · 01/10/2010 10:11

Until these threads, I'd never heard of this bloke. Why give him the oxygen of publicity ?

theSilverSurfer · 01/10/2010 10:24

Because he has a valid point, it that what you find offensive somebody that has a view based on ideas experinece and some facts that may challenge your way of thinking

theSilverSurfer · 01/10/2010 10:26

If the view was being expressed by a woman what would you say then?

perfumedlife · 01/10/2010 10:34

I read 'Why love matters" SilverSurfer, it was fascinating.

I think Oliver James has made some valid points, or at least, he tried to, on the Woman's Hour item. He was constantly interupted by Jenni Murray before he could finish making a point.

It was so bad I wrote to complain, utterly unbalanced and aggresive. Don't invite guests on if you are not prepared to give them a fair hearing.

Just because some things are difficult to hear, doesn't mean they don't need to be said.

mrsunreasonable · 01/10/2010 10:38

If someone can not express themselves without the use of swear words I refuse to believe they are intelligent enough to tell me what to do with my kids!

perfumedlife · 01/10/2010 10:39

He was referencing the Philip Larkin poem. He is more than linguinlistically able.

perfumedlife · 01/10/2010 10:40

Linguistically even.Blush

annec555 · 01/10/2010 10:42

Hang on a second! Wasn't there a big news story just yesterday indicating that they are pretty sure that ADHD is caused by a "broken" gene?
And not all child behaviour problems are due t ADHD - "acting out" because of the lack of a parent is not ADHD.
There may well be a rise in behaviour problems due to family make-up but that is a very different thing to ADHD. You can't lump it all together and attribute a slightly wishy-washy cause to it.
I deal with a lot of juveniles with behaviour problems and the term "ADHD" is bandied about quite a lot - only a tiny proportion of children to whom this label is attached actually have a formal diagnosis or actually display the traits of ADHD. I think ADHD is in danger of becoming a synonym for behavioural difficulties when it is something very specific and quite possibly genetic.

theSilverSurfer · 01/10/2010 10:44

mrsunreasonable do you mean maighdlin and JamieOliver then ?

theSilverSurfer · 01/10/2010 10:46

annec555

this is part of the problem 1% of real "ADHD"
might be genetic true and the other 99% that is getting wrong lumped into this then?

theSilverSurfer · 01/10/2010 10:48

ps annec555 and he was suggesting that report did no such thing when you actaully looked at the data.

I have seen many reported that have been twisted to suggest one thing or another. fortunatly I'm a trained statistics analyser so I can read the data without the spin

theSilverSurfer · 01/10/2010 10:49

perfumedlife for me its a game changer and written by a women.

I think Sue gerhardt and Oliver James should get together and do a new book about ADHD and false ADHD

perfumedlife · 01/10/2010 11:03

That would make for interesting converation Silver Grin

A mum at my ds's school is constantly called in re her boy's behaviour. He is 6 and is disruptive, steals, hits, spits, you name it. She works part time, but instead of fetching him home and trying to sort out his behaviour, she pays for him to go into after school care, then umteen after school classes, swimming, judo etc.

Rather than address the stealing for example, she will declare he is a tactile person and has a need to touch things Hmm. So, he touches it and then steals it. She is not addressing the stealing, she provides 'reasons' for it. She conceived her ds as a result of a two week fling with a married man who lives in a different continent. He has never met his dad. When school try to help, she makes a case for ADHD, and yet, when the school start the statement process, she stops and blames the teachers.

Only 6, and the head has suggested he move schools. Not because she thinks he is a hopeless case, or has ADHD, but because the mother is parenting him in such a chaotic and confusing way.

I think the new findings of genetic causes for ADHD could have a fascinating effect, with perhaps the numbers of diagnosis falling very soon.

theSilverSurfer · 01/10/2010 11:09

perfumedlife I would put Hariett harman in the same room too,

And as you say this is repeat and repeat all over the place in the UK with disasterious results for the children.

I have a open mind and am therefore repared to think the unthinkable and do the unthinkable so that the childrens best interest are looked after

theSilverSurfer · 01/10/2010 11:25

My mum gave up work when I was born, and started a family, so I have grown up without any issues had plenty of love from both parents Smile Smile

maybe this is what is causing the problem that some modern mums way of life is very detrimental to the upbring of their children

annec555 · 01/10/2010 11:29

Oh goody. Here we go!
Bad working mums. Bad!

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