to wonder who Oliver James is? working mothers look away!

[Chulita]

Here Sorry if there's a thread on it already, I just read this and was a bit

Agree with foureleven's and xenia's posts.

i dont have to work.i wholeheartedly chose to work.i worked hard for my degrees was 1st in family to go to uni.work gives me vocational satisfaction,approbation and i really enjoy it.i see no reason to give it up or deny myself soemthing i like doing.if i took 5yrs out it would be a huge professional gulf and hard to make that up

i love being mum and i love working

my mum worked fulltime,imbued me with a good work ethos.working is a good role model.our children should see mum working too.

mistletoe "I dont believe that it is healthy for my [DC] to be glued to me 24/7"
scottishmummy "i am not solely defined by motherhood"
blueshoes "checks and balances and more hands to the pump"

Well said all.

sunshine - i did look around the other nurseries at the time, but the only one that looked like it was better was £70 a day!!!! (north london) - i agree that i had a bad experience (I did say that though). now there is a surestart nursery which is better and cheaper, but still £44 day per child.

this was 6 years ago, we got a nanny share and she stayed for over 5 years. she only left when both dc where at school so didn't need full day nanny.

that all being said even in a good nursery i think one to one care is preferable if possible. i just know it isn't always possible.

out of interest where in the country are you?

I thought that for under twos, nursery care ratios were one adult to two children. Is that not the case?

Nope. 1:3 under 1, 1:4 under 2 (I think?)

Find myself in the rather annoying position of wanting to defend my choices (I'm sure I add to an OJ thread on a weekly basis at the moment)!
The nursery my DD has been at for 2.5years is run by my employer (public sector), and all the people who work there have final salary pensions, and fair salaries etc etc. As a result NONE of the nursery staff have left since my DD started there (apart from 2 who went on maternity leave - which arguably could happen with a CM). My DD LOVES the nursery, and as she is now nearly 4, is able to tell me so.
There are good parents and bad parents, good and bad CMs, and good and bad nurseries.

Except for the precious first born, it is hardly one-to-one care in the average household. One-to-many care with housework, schoolrun, shopping and admin on top, more like.

1 staff to 3 children ratio 2yrs and under

there must be at least one member of staff for every three children;
at least one member of staff must hold a full and relevant level 3 qualification (as defined by
CWDC), and have suitable experience of working with children under two;
at least half of all other staff must hold a full and relevant level 2 qualification (as defined by CWDC);
at least half the staff must have received specific training in the care of babies;
the member of staff in charge of the babies? room must have suitable experience of working with children under two years.

at my nursery it is 1 staff 2 children

Old Etonian Oliver James is slightly detached from the realities of modern life though.

How in this day and age, can one average salary pay for a roof over a family's head? Surely homelessness is more damaging to children than mothers working?

I always read Oliver Jame's section, I think he is really good. He knew his article on childcare would make him unpopular, I think it is a don't kill the messenger situation as it is not his research he is just offering the facts.

Basically it is not his fault how people have to live and what choices they have to make. He is just saying what situation is the best for a child's develpoment. I also think he put his points quite gently.

They aren't 'facts' seashore - did you read that article that avrilheych linked to? The science is very dubious indeed. OJ wouldn't be the first scientist to slant data or make it seem that it has much more weight than it has and I doubt he will be the last but we are all responsible for checking sources rather than swallowing guff whole because it's in a paper

as a psychologist you think he'd know there is no one universal undisputed way to do things

he overlooks the maother's self efficacy and volition.what if mum wants to work.why should she deny herself to become mummy martyr

there are as many of being mum as there are mothers

there are as many ways of being mum as there are mothers -one size doesnt fit all

oj isnt good empirical peer reviewed research.it is his anecdotal opinion

Are there very many children in Britain who have one to one childcare all day, up to age? I would have thought most families have less than a five year gap between siblings, and most SAHMs send children to school or childcare of some sort between 5. I don't think this is really a SAHM vs. WOHM issue as there are hardly any SAHMs who are solely with their 4 year olds all day every day.

MumNWLondon - Im in south west(wont say any further cause i dont want people to recognise me on here). I dont know of any nurseries that charge over £30 and most childminders here are £3 an hour.

Well I had the worst of both worlds because I had a stay at home depressed mother and then a stressed working mother, had my house key by 8 yrs.

From my own experience I see a lot of sense in plenty of what Oliver James writes but I hadn't read this whole thread (scanned through some of it now) and I can see people are angry.

perhaps I'm a bit barking, but I don't think OJ is a sexist pig who doesn't understand the research ( whatever emphasis he puts on it) and what he says about fathers is spot on. So far no one has responded to that particular point, we've all justified or explained our choices / prejudices as if men have nothing to do with any of this...

Perhaps we just enjoy slagging him and each other off more than we actually like starting from the position of what's best for our children and families and what tje current body of knowledge says about this.

Well said Wahwah completely agree with you, I think as you say slagging him off and each other is the easier option, when really there is a much bigger picture as to why people make certain choices, it's more to do with what banks, goverment demand from people, no-one gets to shape their own lives.

Having read his section for years in The Guardian I do not believe he is sexist at all.

there is the rub,"what is best" is disputed isnt a universally shared belief

best for one mum isnt necessarily best for another mum

It's actually about what is best for the child not mother.

Research agrees that whilst adults differ children do not, so what is best for one child is best for all children.

This isn't Oliver James in disguise!

of course children differ they arent homogeneous.one cannot easily take the parent out of the equation.in real life as parents we compromise and try strike a balance between what the adult wants/needs to do and the child needs.so no decision taken in isolation

He just has an ability to rub women up the wrong way and to come across sexist, that's the trouble or he is presented as such by the press. Plenty of parents prefer a daily nanny or childminder to a nursery but I wouldn't single out the type of care as the reason a child would be hurt irretrievably. It ism uch more complex than that - genes, how our parents are with us when we are with them, how those who care for children are with them etc. To home in on one simple thing - like nursery good, nanny in your house great or daddy sole care in the house great is too simplistic.

What is best for children is they have happy parents who engage with them and arrange suitable childcare for them . You can be a stay at home parent but unable to care properly for the child for physical or mental reasons.

Although it's sexist to say so having an ageing male old Etonian who has if the Times article is to be believed never done a day's sole childcare in his life because his medical condition, MS, means he cannot who often comes over as pretty sexist too and had a damaged upbringing is not exactly going to make women feel here is a man to whom I should listen.

But I expect we and he all agree on some absolutes too - tying children to an orphanage bed all day isn't going to be too good for them. Nursery with 8 babies and one carer (which is not allowed in the UK) bad. Father or mother at home on drugs or so depressed they shout at the child or ignore it not good. etc etc.

seashore - all children are not the same. And I don't know why you have raised your upbringing - sounds like your mum was stressed full stop. What about you?