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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To expect the Doctor to respect my wishes?

644 replies

loumum3 · 20/05/2010 18:45

I have not vaccinated my youngest child. I have done this after much research and made an informed decision. The Doctor's surgery has phoned me several times now and written requesting I go in for a discussion about this. I haven't got time for a visit to discuss this, nor do I want to so I said if I had to, I could talk about it on the phone....I have had the Doctor on the phone this afternoon grilling me about my choices, really trying to scare me into having the jabs done and trying to make me feel bad. She cannot see my point of view at all and has been very rude.

Is is really too much to expect a Doctor to respect the decisions I make about my own children ?

Has anyone else experienced this ?

OP posts:
ArthurPewty · 21/05/2010 10:41

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ArthurPewty · 21/05/2010 10:50

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lowenergylightbulb · 21/05/2010 10:53

Iloveflipflops. I'm sorry but you are being a little foolish. The reason why there are low numbers of people dying from tetanus, measles etc in the UK as opposed to developing countries is the success of the fecking vaccine programme.

If more and more people stop vaxxing and we have epidemics of measles (for example) you will see deaths/complications rise.

You only need to look at parish records 100 years ago to see how many children were killed by diseases that we routinely vax against now.

Non-vaxxers only have the luxury of their choice because of the success of vaccine programmes.

However as soon as seemingly healthy middle class children start dying from measles, whooping cough and diphtheria they will be stampeding away from Holland and Barrets and back to their GP's braying that they weren't told of the risks.

ArthurPewty · 21/05/2010 10:55

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crumpette · 21/05/2010 11:00

side effects

perhaps, OP, you could advise your GP that you have made an informed decision and will not consent but that you will reconsider this at a later stage. I have read many reports suggesting vaccination should not occur under the age of 2, but that certain single jabs after this age are safer than before due to the immune response- how about say you are considering delaying vaccines until DCs are older? That should get them off your case, and no YANBU

OldMacEIEIO · 21/05/2010 11:10

Is it just me ? am I being daft in drawing a parallel to speed cameras here?

these cameras are designed to protect the health of the population by making the entire population conform, regardless of the specific circs.
Its all about risk management, targeting the herd, not the individual who poses the actual risk.

maybe i will go for a lie down in a darkened room

volatilemeerkats · 21/05/2010 11:20

"I have relatives in their 90's and 100's and they have never had a vaccine in their life - how does a child not having a vaccine risk your childs health ?"

Well, they'd be the ones who didn't contract one of the diseases we immunise against or who did but didn't die or suffer life-shortening consequences.

I agree with posters pointing out that it's the success of vaccination programmes that allows people to consider it optional.

TheBride · 21/05/2010 11:37

OldMac- you are right. Vaccination programmes work by creating mass immunity so that diseases do not spread.

i.e. if one person gets measles, but 90% of people are immune, that person can only potentially pass it on to 1 in 10 rather than 10 in 10. That 1 person again can only pass it on to 1 in 10. If you do the maths, you can see how effective it is in terms of limiting spread.

To be very effective, a certain percentage of the population needs to be vaccinated.

Therefore, if a lot of people choose not to vaccinate it becomes increasingly likely that the unvaccinated population will get infected as spread will be faster. The vaccinated people will still (except in v few cases) be immune.

On that basis, if you choose not to vaccinate it's actually quite stupid to go round encouraging others to do the same.

analytic · 21/05/2010 11:44

OP if you care about your children's health you should phone back today, make an appointment and get them vaccinated next week.

if you find yourself in a years time nursing them through whooping cough, or finding them diagnosed with tetanus or polio you are not going to feel too clever.

the doctor is not after vaccination bonus he/she is trying to safeguard your children's health.

runnybottom · 21/05/2010 12:17

Crumpette, that link is exactly what I am talking about!
It says that anorexia is caused by the diptheria vaccine, and that SIDS is caused by tetanus shots. It makes you look bonkers and conkers. This is not science, it is hysteria.

Its really rather pathetic to see apparently educated women spouting such utter nonsense.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 21/05/2010 12:18

I'm not going to get drawn into the argument (although I'm really, really itching to )

I would just like to comment that anecdotes do not equal facts. You can find anecdotes to support any theory, hence the importance of evidence based science.

bruffin · 21/05/2010 12:28

"On that basis, if you choose not to vaccinate it's actually quite stupid to go round encouraging others to do the same"

TheBride - that is the most commonsense I have ever read on a vaccination debate

BalloonSlayer · 21/05/2010 12:38

Saslou Your post "- BalloonSlayer - If people are refused state education/healthcare because they refuse to allow the state to make decisions regarding their own childrens welfare, then effectively their freedom of choice is being removed. How many people can realistically homeschool? This is also further damaging the children by denying them their right to healthcare/education.
I bet if the govt went down that route, they wouldn't reimburse the tax paid by people who were prohibited from using public services. "

I agree with you. I DO!

I used it as an example of what I'd see as the state/NHS not respecting the wishes of parents. IMO a phone call to make sure that the parent is actually making an informed choice is NOT "not respecting the wishes of parents," it is "making sure that the vaccine has been declined due to the wishes of the parents concerning vaccines themselves and not for some other reason, such as agoraphobia or needle phobia, or being unable to read the appointment card."

saslou · 21/05/2010 13:02

Sorry BalloonSlayer, I misunderstood you

pointissima · 21/05/2010 14:43

It is true that GPs are paid bonuses for achieving target numbers in vaccinations. They are, therefore, conflicted and cannot give unbiased advice.

At the height of the MMR scare we paid a private paediatrician about £100 for independent advice, then went ahead and had the vaccinations.

The upshot was that for any individual there are some risks in any vaccination, so, in theory the best result is for everybody else to be vaccinated but not the individual in question. in his, view, however, the risks were much much smaller than they were being painted at the time qand nothing compared with the risk of measles.

I felt a lot better for getting some advice I could trust

HappySeven · 21/05/2010 16:01

Sorry,pointissima but you paid him. How is that any different? And are you easily swayed by money? If I genuinely thought something was wrong I wouldn't say it even if I got paid more and I'm sure most GPs feel the same way.

Original poster
loumum3 · 21/05/2010 16:18

Well... I never thought there would be so many angry people!

I didn't ask for your thoughts on vaccination, after seeing what it did to 2 family members and my friends baby, I made an informed decision and do not at this time want to vaccinate. I wanted thoughts on our GP and her incapability to leave me alone.

Just to make myself clear, I have had 2 face to face consultations with the GP's at least 5 conversations with the HV from the surgery, several telephone conversations with the GP's and lots of conversations with various other people at the surgery.

I think this is more than enough and we should be left alone with our decision.

I asked if it was unreasonable to expect the GP to respect our decision and it seems 90% of you think she is entitled to keep on at us, which really surprises me, I think she is overdoing it now and it irritates me that this child is nearly 2 years old and this particular GP has just decided he should have been vaccinated.

If she is so worried about it, how come she has only just picked this up?

OP posts:
Sassybeast · 21/05/2010 16:29

I'm confused - in your OP, you said that you didn't have time to go in to the surgery for a discussion, now you say that you've had at least 2 GP consultations ?

bruffin · 21/05/2010 16:30

loumum3- maybe the reasons you are given are not as informed as you believe they are.

Original poster
loumum3 · 21/05/2010 16:33

Yes, this time I didn't have time as I have already been twice !

OP posts:
Sassybeast · 21/05/2010 16:49

I would suspect then that they are not convinced about your arguments. Perhaps it would be worth making another appointment and taking all of your evidence based research in written form (if you haven't already done this)

Original poster
loumum3 · 21/05/2010 16:56

I think I will go and see the senior GP that is in charge and discuss this one last time and ask if they could please respect my wishes and leave us alone from now on.

Must go and feed the children!

OP posts:
biddysmama · 21/05/2010 17:03

yanbu for wanting the dr to repect your choices and yanbu for doing what you think is best for your children... ftr neither of mine or myself have or will have the swine flu jab but they do have the other jabs as i feel the risk is worth it in case they get the illnesses (iyswim) i also dont believe the risk of asds (not asda like i just typed lol) from the mmr despite having a ds with asd

Northernlurker · 21/05/2010 17:14

It's such a luxury to think you don't need to have your children vaccinated.

Diptheria, tetanus, polio - all horrible and in many cases lethal diseases which we don't give a second thought to but the graveyards of our towns and villages are full of children and young adults killed by these diseases before vaccination.

Diptheria - 'Diphtheria is a serious disease, with fatality rates between 5% and 10%. In children under 5 years and adults over 40 years, the fatality rate may be as much as 20%.[6] Outbreaks, though very rare, still occur worldwide, even in developed nations such as Germany and Canada.' (Wikipedia)

Tetanus - 'In four out of 10 people tetanus causes death. Spasms or convulsions may be violent and you can stop breathing or have a heart attack. Other complications of tetanus include:

pneumonia (lung infection) and other infections fractures - due to spasms or convulsions breathing problems muscle problems (rhabdomyolysis) coma ' - From a BUPA leaflet

Polio - 'Overall, 5?10% of patients with paralytic polio die due to the paralysis of muscles used for breathing. The mortality rate varies by age: 2?5% of children and up to 15?30% of adults die' - Wikipedia again.

Op - I'm not surprised your GP is making strenuous efforts to speak to you again about this issue. I find it impossible to accept such a decision as 'reasonable'. Imo it represents foolishness and neglect.

jaffacake2 · 21/05/2010 17:16

If you live near sw london or adjoining counties then that maybe why you have had extra calls from the gp. We have had a notification through our consultant of public health at the surgery where I work,to contact all parents of unimmunised MMR children as there have been cases of measles in the area.They are trying to avoid cases which can be fatal for some children especially those who are immunosupressed ie on cancer treatment.