To expect the Doctor to respect my wishes?

[loumum3]

I have not vaccinated my youngest child. I have done this after much research and made an informed decision. The Doctor's surgery has phoned me several times now and written requesting I go in for a discussion about this. I haven't got time for a visit to discuss this, nor do I want to so I said if I had to, I could talk about it on the phone....I have had the Doctor on the phone this afternoon grilling me about my choices, really trying to scare me into having the jabs done and trying to make me feel bad. She cannot see my point of view at all and has been very rude.

Is is really too much to expect a Doctor to respect the decisions I make about my own children ?

Has anyone else experienced this ?

BalloonSlayer - If people are refused state education/healthcare because they refuse to allow the state to make decisions regarding their own childrens welfare, then effectively their freedom of choice is being removed. How many people can realistically homeschool? This is also further damaging the children by denying them their right to healthcare/education.
I bet if the govt went down that route, they wouldn't reimburse the tax paid by people who were prohibited from using public services.

I am talking about a healthy child.

A healthy child is a healthy child whether they have been vaccinated or not. Please don't forget a vaccinated child can catch Measles too.

My niece is brain damaged and partially blind because of vaccines and I think we should be given the full facts relevant to our country and not a leaflet that glosses over the bad bits.

flipflops, I'm sorry about your niece, but I don't think you're answering my point (if you'd rather not I understand, I just don't know if you think you are answering it).

I didn't think they did gloss over the bad bits when I last had a vaccine myself, is it different when you take them in for the MMR?

Yes MintHumbug you are correct , there are lots of nasty side effects.

I do think though that we should be given real time, real country facts in these leaflets/websites as otherwise people do not have the full facts.

When my cousin refused the MMR for her child she was told that the GP sees brain damaged children all the time caused by Measles and I think this is unhelpful. Another cousin is a GP and said he has never seen a child with Measles never mind one with brain damage!

Can I just put my two cents in as someone who is too old to have had the MMR and who caught Mumps a few years ago from an unimmunised child and who nearly died from the complications. Thanks. My daughter was nearly without a mother as the result of these sorts of decisions. If we need 95% vaccinations for herd immunity, lets leave that 5% for people who have valid medical reasons for refusing the jabs, not just some nameless fear that it might hurt your baby.

Incidentally, according to DH, who is a virologist so this is his area of experitse, the human immune system can tolerate vast numbers of pathogens in one jab. They've never managed to find a maximum number. So three at one time is peanuts.

LittleRedDragon- There wasn't any advice given to my sister before my nieces jab, when my sister asked if they were sure my niece should have the jab as she had a cold, the nurse told her not to be so silly and did she want the baby to get ill and die !

it's very difficult to decide. As a parent you gradually become aware that other people don't vaccinate; you hear anecdotal stories of friend's children, and the odd newspaper article about children suffering complications. Then you google it...how many of us actually know where to access the proper unbiased research studies into it, and how many just have a feeling vaccines can't be safe? As I posted a while back, ds had meningitis, and that fear was much much worse than when his db had a reaction to mmr. So, I would say vaccinate, but then I am only another anecdotal experience on the internet.

Really? I think that's very poor of your sister's health centre then. I got a leaflet that gave you the risks and balanced them up against the benefits, and I also remember when we were in school getting the one you get in your arm (what is that? Brain like a sieve here), we got a talk from the guy doing it about what it was for, what the risks were, etc.

I don't think calling people 'silly' is the way forward, somehow.

MH - I was responding to a point made earlier that the state could make a case for refusing entry to schools if children have not been immunised and just pointing out that this would remove freedom of choice. I do agree that the GP should make certain the OP has all the facts before making her choice, but having est that, I don't think they should continue to pressure her into doing something that she feels is wrong. She HAS met with the GP surgery on previous occasions. I am not anti immunisation - I think the benefits outweigh the risks in the majority of circumstances, but I do think that the final decision has to rest with the OP because she is the parent. There is a difference between encouragement (which I am all for) and pressure. I think this would be less of an issue if people could trust politicians to tell the truth. Their failure to do so in other contexts means that people now doubt them when it comes to advice regarding vaccination. Hence, reluctance to trust MMR, even though the govt said it was safe

My point is that the OP says she/he has family problems with vaccines and has done a lot of research and decided against the jabs.

They are not compulsory and seeing as they have spoken to the GP several times, I feel they should be left alone and the GP even though she doesn't agree with them should respect their wishes.

Off out now, I will leave you good people to carry on flaming the OP even though she/he is well within their rights to refuse the jabs.

What research though? On the myriad of hysterical non-scientific conspiracy theorists nonsense available on the net? Or a degree in immunology and a few years experience in a lab?

Not all research is equal. And the rubbish linked to on these discussions always makes the non-vaxers look like absolute loons.

runnybottom
getting top advice goes without saying. but it has to be independant, with no agenda

the fear here is that GP's are on some sort of bonus to get the herd vaccinated

sassy and Valhalla - yes, not having these vaccines would effectively bar you from nursing/medical professions - and several others. However, you you can have all childhood vaccinations as an adult (although you may have to pay). The problem is the risk of catching the disease in the meantime.

Flipsflops - please see previous post that points out that the reason the risk of death from all these diseases is so low in the UK is a) because of the vaccination programme and b) because of the overall excellent healthcare facilities, including Intensive Care. This does not mean that UK children are less likely to get seriously ill than a child in a developing country from the same disease, just that they are far more likely to survive (due to better nutritional state etc to start with and due to healthcare). A sick child is still terrible even if they don't die, particularly if preventable.

Also, for those suggesting OP should therefore opt out of NHS should DC get sick, I am not sure where you live but there are no private paediatric emergency departments or private paediatric Intensive care around here. Any child under a private physician who was that sick would be transferred to the NHS. The private HC system in UK is geared towards elective (planned) surgery, chronic or non-life threatening diseases, with only a few exceptions. Different in the U.S and maybe in London but otherwise, OP is not going to be in a position to opt of the NHS if her DC get seriously ill from these diseases - and the NHS (and taxpayer) would pay for the consequences of OP decision.

I don't believe that for a minute. Of course they get paid to give vaxs, its called getting paid for work done! They aren't volunteers.
They want you to vaccinate your children because they understand the issue better than most parents, and see the results of the diseases that could be prevented.

My area is in the midst of yet another measles outbreak, because the mmr takeup has dropped to about 75%. 2 infants died here not long ago, others had serious complications. Thats not scaremongering, thats truth. And you try telling the parents of those dead children that your right to choose is far more important than their childrens lives. I dare you.

Not really wanting to get dragged into the old vaccination and MMR debate on here again... however... MMR uptake is low in my area of London (various reasons: parents detered by Wakefield's scaremongering, plus high rates of immigration). As a result my DD caught measles when she was 10 months old. I was no longer bf-ing at that time so she didn't have any immunity from that, and she was too young to have had her first MMR jab. Luckily she is a healthy child and it was just one week of illness, but it was absolutely terrifying. 1 in 10 children who catch measles are hospitalised.

People who have a good medical reason to avoid vaccination for their children, of course that makes sense. If you have no reason other than this then you should vaccinate and your doctor is right to pursue it with you. The lack of herd immunity in parts of the UK is seeing the return of illnesses which we thought we had all but eradicated. Herd immunity protects those people who genuinely can't be vaccinated and also those who have compromised immunity due to cancer, HIV and a whole range of other illnesses.

I'd be all in favour of the system they have in some countries where children have to be vaccinated before starting school. IMO it's socially irresponsible to do anything else. I know the OP has made her mind up but I think it's a real problem in the UK that people feel they have the right to exercise their (often ill-informed) 'choice' in what is essentially and public health issue.

There, I've said my bit [dons hard hat, prepares for flaming]

An yes, the GP practice (not the individual GP) is almost certainly paid to ensure that children are vaccinated, in the same way that they are paid to aid people stop smoking, check BP and screen for diabetes in at risk groups, check peak flows in asthmatic etc, etc. This is simply part of the way the system funds GP practices (rightly or wrongly, but that is a whole other topic) and not some Machiavellian plot by the GP chasing up OP.

thisisyesterday, you don't get offered the MMR if you are pregnant but have it soon after birth to protect any future pregnancies. If you aren't immune you just have to hope you don't catch it while pregnant.

OldMac
Doctors get paid by the NHS to deliver recommended services. It is not a 'bonus'.

They also get paid for every patient they can get to stop smoking and/or lose weight if they are obese.

This is because these things are for the good health of the nation. Not some money-making conspiracy.

The OP has a right to refuse vaccinations on behalf of her children. I think she is foolish, but I don't know her own family history. She also has a responsibility to go with that right, that I don't think she (and others who refuse to vaccinate for no valid reason) is considering.

The GP has a responsibility to ensure the OP is in full possession of the facts when she made her decision. Phoning a couple of times and asking the OP to justify her refusal does not constitute harrassment.

If you go against the grain you have to expect to be challenged, especially when you are doing it on behalf of another person who can't speak for themselves.

If you are happy with your decision and 100% sure you are right, having to answer a few phone calls should not bother you.

PS Also not all children achieve immunity after the first dose which is why children have two now. As the second is just before school the chances are that the child at nursery wouldn't have had both.

100 per cent with novicemama and Oenopod

If you don't agree with the OP hide the thread, there've been thousands of these on mn over the years and no one on either side of the debate has ever changed their minds

oneopod and runnybottom
I am certain that I heard about a bonus on top, for hitting a certain target. 90% I think
and it was this that led to some refusniks being binned off by the GP

mind you, it was a long time ago, a few years, so things may have changed.