To expect the Doctor to respect my wishes?

[loumum3]

I have not vaccinated my youngest child. I have done this after much research and made an informed decision. The Doctor's surgery has phoned me several times now and written requesting I go in for a discussion about this. I haven't got time for a visit to discuss this, nor do I want to so I said if I had to, I could talk about it on the phone....I have had the Doctor on the phone this afternoon grilling me about my choices, really trying to scare me into having the jabs done and trying to make me feel bad. She cannot see my point of view at all and has been very rude.

Is is really too much to expect a Doctor to respect the decisions I make about my own children ?

Has anyone else experienced this ?

Yes immunisation fails in some children but those children are exposed to a far smaller degree to the danger of illness than unvaccinated children. Nothing is 100% but it's the force of history that tells me vaccinations are by far the lesser 'danger'

Leonie - have you ever looked at a victorian churchyard? Gravestone after gravestone recording a high mortality rate. On some stones you can see an epidemic going through a family killing one after another. There are lots of factors at play and our better diet, better sanitation and more sophisticated medical treatment is all in your child's favour - but vaccination has played it's part in reducing child and adult mortality and it is folly to pretend otherwise.

I ask again - how do you propose to protect your child against tetanus?

Btw - doctors respect nature - they know she's a killer - vicious and unpredictable. They just don't want to open the door and let her in.

Leonie- it's a numbers game. Why does that not register with you!

At present, people like you get away with not immunising their child because most people do immunise. Just do the maths (i know we've estblished it's not your best subject but give it a go)based on 9 in 10 being immunised vs 5 in 10 and see how many additional infections would happen in a 10 transmission cycle. You'll hopefully conclude that at present, your child probbaly wont get tetanus/polio/measles etc due to high levels of vaccination creating mass immunity in the UK population

If everyone followed your advice (you actually dont want them to btw) then the risk of non-imunisation would flip the other way so the risk of your child contracting some awful disease would be higher than the risk of them getting whatever it is you're worried about them getting from the vaccine

Basically, at present, your decision not to vaccinate is being faciliated by those that do vaccinate but so long as you're ok with that then that's fine.

All of you trying to guilt trip the OP....

How would you feel if when you took your 8 week old baby to get their recommended vaccinations, they had a massive reaction to it, fitted and could not be revived?

My baby DIED as a result of this country's unnecessarily aggressive vaccine policy.

So I applaud people like the OP who does her research and understands the risks.

I wish I had been so informed. Then I wouldn't be placing flowers on my baby's grave every week.

Leonie, it takes cheek to call yourself "a humble mother" who knows better than doctors. I have to go out, get some sunscreen for my boy, hopefully that won't give him any extra limbs or some other medical horror

I mean its been approved by doctors, something must be wrong with it, right?

tokenfemale I am so sorry to hear about your baby and really cannot imagine what you have been through. Sadly some babies do react badly to vaccinations but for the majority the advantages outweigh the risks. You're right that we should all do our research and that is why I will be taking my 6 week old for her immunisations.

No I'm not trying to guilt trip her but you're definitely trying to guilt trip me!

If you post a controversial topic in AIBU on a public forum then you're going to start a debate between two very opinionated groups of people. I doubt the OP expected everyone to say "no, you're right"

If you'd like to point out the factual inaccuracies in my posts (not typos- I am rubbish at typing) I'll be happy to stand corrected.

While we're trading emotional scuds, my sister nearly died of whooping cough in the 70's. She wasnt vaccinated due to scaremongering about the vaccine at the time - claims that subsequently proved unfounded.

leoniedelt please don't call me a hypocrite. You posted on AIBU on a very polarised topic and seem surprised when people disagree with you. I am trying to be understanding and do believe you have a choice to believe what you want. My only concern is children's health, as is yours, but I see the facts differently and this is why I prefer to immunise.

Because the conclusions of your research (presumably based on risk from vaccine vs risk of contracting disease being vaccinated against)are only valid in the presence of a mass vaccination programme (see my previous post).

I'm not saying your decision is wrong. At the present time you have quite possibly made quite a good assessment of those risks. I'm saying you're stupid for evangelising because your decision being the right one depends on most other people vaccinating.

You can choose to be well meaning and stupid, or selfish but logical. What a choice!

tokenfemale - I'm very sorry for your loss. What happened to your baby was unpredictable and terrible but it doesn't make a vaccination progamme inherently dangerous nor does it make non-vaccination a safer option. I have no wish to guilt trip anyone but childhood illnesses kill, vaccination protects and anybody claiming otherwise is deluded.

I'm so sorry about your baby - I can't imagine how that must feel - but it is vaccination not non-vaccination that is standing as the protection between other mothers and the terrible bereavement you've had.

OldMac - too many zeroes in the first number in your post. otherwise, you might've elicited a chuckle from me.

leonie - thats ok, you had one too many in your iq

Herd instinct

Actually, it just occurred to me why GP's talk about immunising the herd.

It's not shorthand for 'the population'

they really mean 'the herd'

tokenfemale,I am so sorry about your baby,that is awful.xx

It's fine to do the research, but Leonie, your own posts make me doubt that you have either the mathematical or scientific background to make that decision rationally.

If you did, then you'd be encouraging everyone else to vaccinate because that is the only basis on which your own argument is a rational one.

Anyone can read a scientific paper and agree with it's conclusions. The question is whether you have the knowledge to critically appraise trial data.

I'm not going to applaud anyone for overconfidence in their own intellect

oooooh we haven't had a vaccination thread in ages - they are usually very contentious!

Loumum - I don't vaccinate either but I have found the best way to handle the HCPs who may hassle you about this is to say 'I'm just going to leave it until she's a bit older' or 'Thanks but I'm still considering my options'.

After dd3 was born I was not even asked about vaccinations by the HV because she knows my position!

One of the problems I have about the baby vaccines is that there is no clinical evidence to support giving them so young. And my GP told me she thinks the reason it happens at this age now is so that children are vaccinated before their mum goes back to work.

There have been loads of threads about it all over the years but in the end it is for you to decide what is best for your child.

And for those who say it's unfair on others not to vaccinate - there is not a person alive who would do anything for the 'greater good' if it meant their child would be damaged as a result.

NorthernLurker - I thought the same until Ava died. I think your viewpoint would change if it was your baby that was buried.

Am going to leave thread now as it is far too emotional a subject for me.

LeonieDelts arguments are convincing and contagious.

is there anything I can take ??

Theres a huge difference between learning about bfing and correcting people who know little about it, and believing the hysterical conspiracy theory websites and arguing science and statistics that you clearly are not qualified to do.

Can you comment please on crumpettes link that states that diptheria and tetanus vaccines cause anorexia? Because if thats the type of nonsense you are using as your research, its no wonder you are laughed out of the gp's surgey.....

Tokenfemale,again I'm so sorry about Ava,my heart goes out to you.I think you probably should leave the thread as it will just hurt you.xx

tokenfemale - very sorry for your loss, but it is not a common event - otherwise it would be all over the media (look at the HPV vaccine and the coverage it got when a few girls had a reaction).

I would not be happy for my young child (too young for the MMR) to be mixing with children who have not been vaccinated as if they have measles, mumps or rubella they are risking the life of my child. I think its fine for parents to make a decision to not vaccinate, but if they do they should not let their children mix with the general population or warn people before they do.

Leonie - I'm not being personal but you are yet to convince me that you are able to properly digest, critically appraise and compare clinical data. You've offered no evidence so why should I take your viewpoint seriously?

If you disagree with my conclusions that your decision not to vaccinate being rational depends on most people vaccinating, then tell me why I'm wrong.