to think this girl should have worn the headscarf in the mosque?

[singsinthebath]

here

Her mother sounds like a lovely tolerant woman (not).

The mother was told "no teachers would be back at school to keep an eye on her daughter" so she kept her home. Seems they did not have the alternative of sending the dc to school who were not going on the trip.

Didn't get the impression that it was the dd who objected to wearing a scarf but the mother. I don't really know why, she could have worn trousers the article says, and the scarf need only be put on when she entered the mosque.

The mother is am idiot, the child is rude.
I have no problem covering up if need to be, when I was Morocco we went to the old markets and my sister and I tied our hair back, wore long sleeves, and trousers and we were treated really well, one woman went in short shorts and a vest top, and was spat at and disrespected, she had the cheek to maon about it, but she was dressed (to their mind) like a hooker.

DumpyOldWoman, a dress code based on health and seaftey= ok. A dress code based on religious dogma=not ok if imposed, esp if imposed on someone who doesn't belong to its particular brand of religion.

I want my DC to find out about different religions, not to adopt their code of dress!

I remember a few months ago I was in Saudi Arabia. It's a country I woud like to be able to see without Sharia law being imposed on me (it was), and my human rights to count for nothing! It's not a nice feeling to be a woman in a country where Sharia law rules, and old superstitions are the excuse for horrible crimes towards women and small girls.

Understanding religion is ok (I've read the Koran! And the Hadith!), being a victim of its stupidity is quite another.

when I lived in Morocco, I was taken around Fez by a bunch of my students, all of them dressed Western style. The girls generally wore tight little tops with spaghetti straps, midriff bare and tight jeans - no one batted an eye at them. As a bunch of local rich kids altogether, they were not hassled at all. I wouldn't have felt comfortable walking about like that.

mind you this was sight-seeing around town, not entering a mosque

She could have just phoned in sick and avoided all this fuss if she really didn't want to go.

Presumably though she wanted to make a point, which is also presumably why she took it to the papers. Ifthere were 10 families who felt the same, I imagine they discussed it amongst themselves and it was a stance on a matter of principle, not really about the actual exigencies of this particular trip and what was to be worn when.

Still what was achieved by the school stance? Does the mother think differently about Islam or the dd? You can guide people towards tolerance but forcing them into it can't work surely? You want to change their way of perceiving people not force them into toeing the line.

this mum, for example, is a twat bigot

I can't believe that the DM thought this fit for an article. "Forced" to wear Muslim dress. If you visit any place of worship you adhere to the dress code- synagogue, church, temple, mosque, whatever.

it's polite, ffs. And as we all know here on mumsnet- Politeness Costs Nothing

oh, bugger

women in the UK wore headscarves all the time in the 1950's, didn't they? Keep their hairdo from being blown about etc

Maybe deep down the mum really hated the sight of her mum in a headscarf (with rollers underneath?). Deep seated trauma?

and you must definitely go and get that gavel down from your beam

Well, I don't like the way the mother has gone about it, and her reasoning does seem somewhat racist. But I really do think that parents and children should be free to opt out of some religious practices at school. Yes, I know the children in this story weren't worshipping in a mosque, but they were still visiting a place of worship.

We're Jewish, DD1 goes to local village CofE school, no other non-CofE schools in the area etc etc. At Christmas, the reception class were trundled off to the local church to take part in a carol service. I was horrified. To a Jew, to worship Jesus is blasphemy. DD1 is only 4, and while I asked her not to take part in prayers, it's all very confusing to her as she's obviously allowed to pray at synagogue.

So I asked for her to be excluded, and was told that either she had to go or I had to keep her home. In reception, that wouldn't mean truancy, but in any other year it would have. And I work, so I can't just randomly stay home with her because her school are going to church. I was absolutely furious about the whole business. I had to just ask her not to pray and hope for the best!

that's a difficult position to be in Annie.

No, Annie, that's truly awful. But the massive difference here is that your DD2 was expected to worship in church- not come and have a look round, as seems to be the case here

I haven't read the whole thread but I hate to say I agree with the mum on this one.

I remember when I went to Malaysia and was asked to wear a headscarf and shawl to see a mosque and I stayed outside rather than do this. I am totally offended that a religion thinks girls's hair is somehow offensive but boy's not - and I know Catholics used to do the same so it's not just Muslims.

For a school to force someone to aquiesce to dressing in a way that is outside the norm (and when that the pupil doesn't want to), it is really wrong.

I don't know why the dd is coming in for flak. She is 14, her picture has been plastered over the papers to get ridiculed. The article says her mother objected, her mother refused to back down, gives her mother's speculations on how it might pan out if Muslim girls attended the school and wanted to wear particular clothing. I didn't see mentioned anywhere what the dd thought or said other than that the mother says she is proud of her school uniform.

Bet the girl would have just gone along with her class happily enough and put a scarf on at the mosque door and left again completely unscathed

and ZZZen- don't worry about the gavel. My beams are littered with gavel heads.

Every year the Gavel Manufacturer's Guild invite me to their dinner and dance as their Best Customer. In fact it is my modest belief that I single handedly keep the Gavel industry going

well just so long as you don't live near a fault line, should be ok then!

"YANBU. Doesn't cost anything to show a bit of tolerance and respect to other cultures' traditions."

Then how come her wish to not be forced to wear a headscarf due to someone elses religous beliefs aren't being shown tolerance or respect? A persons belief don't get the status of trump card because you tag "religion" or "culture" to them. I'd agree wholeheartedly if she wanted to go in but refused to put on the scarf. She was happy to do neither and is being punished.
If tolerance and respect is the theme of the day then why is their a group of people trying to force a girl to wear something she doesn't want to because of what someone else believes in.

Toomuchtooyoung:
"They'll be the the type of family who I've seen walking around Egypt, Jordan and Thailand with legs and arms exposed because they wanted to get a tan.

In one place in Jordan the daughter had a on shorts and a bikini top and the mother complained everyone was staring "

I totally agree with this, and have cringed with embarrassment at Brits abroad in the past. The worst was a miffle-aged woman walking through teh streets of Tangier dressed in a bikini. Not on the beach even but in town. You'd hardly walk down Croydon High Street in a bikini, would you? So why do it abroad, surrounded by Muslims? So incredibly ignorant, I felt like confronting her. Interestingly, I saw several local women who were bf with their norks exposed but their heads & the rest of them covered up!

I notice that Joanna Lumley, on her recent trip down the Nile, was covered up all the time, looked respectful and still managed to look gorgeous.

most people look better when they are covered up a bit

I certainly do

miffle? middle.

I liked miffle

OneStone - I would never be able to live in Saudi Arabia or anywhere that required me, by law (or fear) to cover myself up, not drive, etc etc.

But I don't see visiting like this in the same way. I have never felt resentful in complying with what is seen as respectful or decent when visiting Hindu temples (no shoes) , Maori Marae (no shoes), or churches in Europe (head covering, and in some no bare shoulders / arms, no shorts). You're being invited into someone else's 'home' to satisfy your own curiosity and learn. People conform to all sorts of things to be polite to hosts - not smoking, not arriving in a bikini and putting their feet on the coffee table, and (controversially) removing shoes rather than tread dogshit onto the white carpet.

I am not a fan of patriarchal religious practices, or fundmentalism. But I'm not a fan of refusing to even observe someone else's culture or religion because your horse is too high.

I agree it was spectacularly badly handled by the school. I don't in fact think she should have been forced.

I'm thinking ofsted were maybe right if they said the school wasn't doing terribly well at teaching respect for other faiths...