to think this girl should have worn the headscarf in the mosque?

[singsinthebath]

here

Her mother sounds like a lovely tolerant woman (not).

whilst if it had been my daughter whom had this opertunity I would have aided her to find a scarf and ensured she was going as I know she is interested in this I actually cant say that I disagree with what this mother is objecting too..

Personally I wouldnt have done so but as mentioned in this thread you CAN opt out of RE (and yes you can do so in faith schools as well mine go to a faith school and we are not of the faith we regularly get told we can opt out if we wish - we never have)

However lets for sake of argument say that you felt strongly you didnt wish your child to have their head covered by a scarf (be it for any catholic chuch in mainland Europe or be it for a temple or anything) then yes I think you should be entitled to say my child will not attend this event. it is not the only way you can learn and gain an understanding for this religion and it is possible for the school to teach this in a different way. I do feel that the parents whom felt they didnt wish their child to do this should have had the option of not sending their child. Without the child being marked as playing truant.

Personally i wouldnt have done it but i do feel they should have had the option to say Not for us no thank you.

As for the first reply I cant belive anyone feels its ok to form an opinion out of a single article you know what they say there are 3 sides to every arugment

yours
mine
and the truth

likely the case here as well

Cat64 the crucial aspect there is "when I wanted", you chose to go somewhere off your own bat because you wanted to do something. I respect the mosque or any organisations right to impose a dress code if one wants to enter the building. The problem comes when you are forcing someone to go somewhere, which is what they are doing by making it part of the curriculum and punishing those who don't attend, and then force them to partake in anothers religous customs against their will.
You can't force respect for others customs, in fact that's the worst way possible to try and foster a harmonious atmosphere. Already it's confrontational and one side is imposing it's will on the other.

oh i didn't notice that smallwhitecat - sorry! Just basing it on the only visit to a mosque i've had, where men and women had to cover their heads. Guess different mosques must have different guidelines.

OneStone - what human right is being thwarted when children are asked to remove shoes to enter a mandir on an educational visit?
Or wear a swimming hat when visiting the local pool?

There is actually a dress code for men and boys in the mosque, too.

My mother thinks that school uniform is an outrage inflicted on her grandchildren against their human rights; to her it means enforced conformity and carries associations of Hitlerjugend and the Chinese Red Guard. To be fair, dd would prefer not to wear school uniform. I am not entirely sure her human rights are being infringed though.

toomuchtooyoung-
i feel really awful now, are you mean to wear long sleeves in egypt if you are out and about? i covered up when we visited various temples and the tombs but i wore vest tops out and about if we went shopping during the daytime. [not that i have that much flesh on show anyway, but im concerned that was wrong there!]

I think the school should take them to a coven next and they should be required to wear full length white robes and pour chicken blood over their heads before having sex on a stone altar with a man with a pentagon carved onto his forhead and a short pointy beard.

That will give that mother something to harrumph about - and the DM readers will self-combust.

Although maybe in thier minds it won' be quite as bad as an ordinary school visit to a mosque.

How silly, YANBU, all she had to do was wear a headscarf, trousers and long sleves how difficult is that! Its not like they are asking her to wear the burka. When you are in a place of worship you have to show respect. When I went to Jerusalem years ago I had to cover my arms in the Jewish quarter, and when I went to the dome of the rock, I had to cover my head and wear long sleves and cover my legs.

They are intolerant and narrow-minded. Mum or priest should have talked the girl out of making a stand that she may be embarrassed about in years to come.

Curbappeal - would like to point out that although the mosque was in Liverpool, the school is in Cheshire.

Oh, YES, Riven, I shall write to that Head recommending it immediately.

They may have problems staying out after midnight on a school trip, though.

don't personally like the tone of that school letter or the dd being effectively punished by having it marked down as truancy. I think families should have had the option not to send their dc on the trip if it was such a major issue for them. The class is no doubt learning about other faiths at school and it is not absolutely essential that they go on a trip like that.

Actually this just brought to mind when I was a student and we were on a trip to Israel,walking in and out of every religious building in existance (which is quite a lot in that country). We girls had to wear longish skirts and scarves for a lot of them. It was interesting but you can get an overdose... Anyhow we had a day off and were all just going to the beach at Tel Aviv so for once I was in shorts, tshirt, sandals. On the way there, one Prof stopped the bus having remembered an old mosque we could go and check out. I thought, omg what do I do now? But the old men working there said not to worry about it, I was allowed in wearing shorts and no head covering. I don't think wearing a skirt below your knees and covering your hair is a whole lot to ask. It's do-able but I still think the girl could have been allowed to stay home. Why all the fuss/coercion, you should be trying to achieve a feeling of friendly interest and that's not how to do it surely?

I mean not the letter printed up on that page but the quotes from the follow-up letter at the beginning of that article.

Does anybody know, was she marked "truant" or "absent". It actually makes a lot of difference to her arguement - the reason she took it to the papers no?

Article says: "Yesterday, after the school acted on its threat to class Amy's absence as truancy..."

Presumably that means it has officially been noted as truancy

I thought that parents had to give permission for children to be taken on school trips. If the mother didn't give permission then surely the school had to provide an alternative to the school trip. It is possible to learn about other religions without visiting.
Imo, no person should be asked to conform to a dress code against their will, for whatever reason. If you choose to attend a school that has a uniform, or take a job where a uniform is worn, then you are agreeing to this when you accept the job offer.This girl was not objecting to wearing her school uniform, but to wearing something that she did not feel comfortable with. Her culture should not be considered as less valid than someone elses. Therefore, it is her right to decline the visit and be educated in a way that does not involve the school trip. I do think that when you visit other countries you should accept their culture differs from yours and behave accordingly or not go

As far as I remember,we don't have a code for 'truancy' on our registers, only 'unauthorised absence'. This could be a holiday which was notified beforehand but which the head decided not to authorise, an absence where a request for a reason has been ignored by the parent, or spending the day in the shopping mall, it's not specified.

Our Year 4 children recently visited a mandir, which requested respectful dress and behaviour - both boys and girls to have their legs covered, no leather bags (shoes are left at the door, so didn't cause a problem) and packed lunches to be vegetarian, with no mushrooms.
None of the parents objected (though some forgot on the day, after all they'd only had a month's notice ), and as far as I know, no one thought they were being asked to 'dress like a Hindu'

I don't think her culture should be considered less important than anyone elses but that is not really the point. As an English Catholic, its not part of her culture to have an uncovered head at all times so its not really hurting her to wear a scarf for a couple of hours. If she genuinely felt uncomfortable covering her head then surely she could have stayed in school and done something else educational rather than just not turn up.