to be so fuming I need to ask MNer's for help with this

[BattyKoda]

I need help to write a stern letter to my Doctors surgery. I'm so angry I don't think I can manage it without swearing.

I have started a thread about this before here

The jist of it is:

DP took DS2 for his first set of jabs. The nurse told him she needed to get permission from "the person that gave birth to him" and phoned me. DP was really upset by this, his name is on the birth certificate, DS has his surname.

Cut to today and I have just taken DS for his second lot. It was the same nurse. She said 'oh I think your DP was a bit angry with me last time' I said, yes, understandably.

actually I will do this in dialogue:

Her: Well we have to ask
Me: Why?
Her: Becuase he could have brought him without your permission.
Me: Well are you going to call him today then? I could have brought him without his permission.
Her: No, the decision is down to the mother, the person that gave birth to him
Me: What about adoptive parents
HEr: well thats different, they have taken on responsibility
Me: My DP already has permission, he has equal parental responsibility to me
HEr: How would you feel if a childminder brought him without you knowing?
Me: WHAT?? A CHildminder??? He's not a childminder, he's the boys father!!!
HEr: OK, OK, well if he brought him without you knowing and I gave him the jab, how would you feel about me then?
ME: It would be nothing to do with you, I would be angry at him. It's not down to you to decide his parental rights, that was done when his name was put on the birth certificate
HEr: I don't want to argue
Me YOu brought it up (childish )

Just beofre I went she pointed to the consent form that I would need to sign if DP brought him again

So, more eloquent MNer's please help me with my letter

But does the doctors surgery have a copy
of the birth certificate? I just registered DS at our new doctors and they never asked me who has PR for him.

Part of me would hope that if someone with a different surname to myself took DS for any kind of treatment, they'd check with me before administering drugs etc.

Is it possible she has just misunderstood? Didn't it used to be that just having his name on the birth certificate didn't automatically give a father parental responsibility is he wasn't married to the mother?

I think complaining is a bit extreme, but raise it with the surgery.

It could also be PCT or surgery policy.

Unmarried fathers used to not have parental responsibility automatically- they had to apply for it, so she may be out of date.

I think it's a good thing to check before giving jabs though. Usually they're happy to jab anyone who walks in.

This is cut and pasted from the directgov website re PR.

"Who has parental responsibility?
In England and Wales, if the parents of a child are married to each other at the time of the birth, or if they have jointly adopted a child, then they both have parental responsibility. Parents do not lose parental responsibility if they divorce, and this applies to both the resident and the non-resident parent.

This is not automatically the case for unmarried parents. According to current law, a mother always has parental responsibility for her child. A father, however, has this responsibility only if he is married to the mother when the child is born or has acquired legal responsibility for his child through one of these three routes:
(from 1 December 2003) by jointly registering the birth of the child with the mother
by a parental responsibility agreement with the mother
by a parental responsibility order, made by a court

Living with the mother, even for a long time, does not give a father parental responsibility and if the parents are not married, parental responsibility does not always pass to the natural father if the mother dies.

All parents (including adoptive parents) have a legal duty to financially support their child, whether they have parental responsibility or not."

So if he jointly registered the birth with you after Dec 2003 then he has PR. If he didn't then you need to do one of the other things.

DH has taken DS for jabs, no one ever mentioned anything like this. How bizarre.

dp has taken ds for injections twice and they never question it!!

I think complaining is absolutely appropriate. Surely practice nurses should be up to date with the law on parental responsibility? It's pretty relevant to the job. And I do think she was also rude.

I'd be pissed off on several levels if that happened to me.

Our practice is the same as someone else mentioned for vaccinations though, you take a letter which you sign that says what your relationship is to the child, regardless of who you are.

The surgery or pct may have advised the nurses to check - they may have had some problems in this area so I'd rather they check than not.

Yes but elemental a married father automatically has PR, an unmarried father does not.

She (or the surgery) may have been in a situation before where something led to a problem - and if they did allow a father without PR to consent to jabs then the mother could complain and kick off I guess. If they've been on the receiving end of it before then I guess they will be careful with consents.

NorkyButNice - My DS has his Dad's surname. Also, they've seen no proff that I am in fact, his Mother.

Auntmaggie - I did point out to her that as his name is on the birth certificate he has equal parental responsibility. She didn't take any of my points on board, and actually cut me off mid sentance a few times.

Minthumbug - Turns out it's not policy (according to weegiemum's husband, who is a GP

From the BMA website

For children whose births were registered from 15 April 2002 in Northern Ireland, from 1 December 2003 in England and Wales and from 4 May 2006 in Scotland, parental responsibility rests with both parents, provided they are named on the birth certificate, regardless of whether they are married or not.

AFAIK this only changes if a court removes parental responsibility from either parent.

As a Practice Manager, I would say they need to update their policy and their training.

It should be very clear on the consent form who/what is required to give consent.

You should not have to jump through hoops to get your child vaccinated, just apply reasonable logic.

The consent form should say something like

"I confirm that I have legal parental responisbility for this child and I give my consent for the child to be given XYZ vaccination"

YANBU to be annoyed, people in practice should be clear on the rules - sounds like she is vague on the rules so should have said so up front.

BTW - BMA have factsheets in case you want to refer to them if you speak to the practice about it.

here

saintlydamemrstunip - Me and DP have told her that he does have parental responsibilty, she doesn't see that it makes a difference. She said that only the person 'that gave birth to the child' can give permission.

Oooh I'd be fuming. We run into this a little tiny bit - not the same, but, because we planned for my husband to be the main carer for our daughter (it actually worked out so that we do 50:50) we added her to his Medicare card not mine. Medicare is Australian NHS, minors don't get their own cards, he and I have separate cards because they predate the marriage.

EVERY time I have to take her in, I tell them the medicare # and explain I don't have the card (they don't need it, just the number) and EVERY time I get a variation of 'well why is she on his card? Why did you decide that?' like I have to justify it.

Apparently "because he's just as much a parent as I am" isn't a good answer.

Anyway, yours is more of an issue. I like the draft letter but I'd add:

"I was quite upset to be contacted by Sister Rude about my child's vaccination on (date) as his father brought him to the appt and as he has parental responsibility it was unnecessary, inappropriate and upsetting to my partner Mr X to question him in this manner. add Since 2003 a father who is named on a birth certificate has joint parental responsibility. Questioning a loving and dedicated father despite this law suggests that either Sister Rude has received no training in the past seven years, or that her attitude is extremely sexist and offensive. As your surgery has vicarious liability for her actions, I trust you will take this matter seriously.

Next paragraph as suggested above,

Yours faithfully,
pissed off mother

Thank you tortoisethehalfshell... I will most definately be including that paragraph!

I'm glad you are getting some help tp complain about this BattyKoda. It is absolute nonsense.

My DB took his DSD for her vaccs and didn't have any problems. He has no parental responsibility, he took her because SIL is a soft shite, but that is another story.

In my notes for dd1 (6), (little red book) it says

Mothers automatically have parental responsibility for their children

Fathers also have parental responsibility if they were married to the mother when the child was conceived or born or if they got married later.

Unmarried Fathers do not automatically have parental responsibility for their child, but a court order or a 'parental responsibility agreement' can give it to them.

So while she was right to check with you as per the guidelines, (which suck) she didn't need to be so rude.

According to the rest of the wording, it came from here A leaflet called "Is it legal? A parent's guide to the law. But I can't find it online. was some time ago, so possible they have re named it?

differentnameforthis - My DP does have parental responsibilty.

It sounds pretty unreasonable to me, but I was wondering whether your baby was registered as a patient at the surgery at the time? I know that my baby's registration paperwork hadn't all been done at that point, so it might be that they need to make extra checks up until that point.

Yes he was registered, as is me, my DP and my other DS.

differentnameforthis - the law has changed since then.

DP and I are not married. For DD1 (6 and half) although he's named on birth cert we had to apply to court for him to be given parental responsibility for her. For DD2 (6 months) he automatically gets PR as he's on birth cert. We're in Scotland.

OP - would be interested to find out what happens when you complain

You should also say something about her bringing it up at your latest meeting. I am guessing she was hoping you would say - no it was all fine.

Dear Nurse Rude,

I am writing to raise some concerns about the way one of your staff dealt with our family recently.

I was quite upset to be contacted by Nurse Rude to get consent for my child's vaccination on (date). His father brought him to the appointment and as he has parental responsibility it was unnecessary, inappropriate and upsetting to my partner Mr X to question him in this manner. Today I took our son for his second set of vaccinations, I saw the same Nurse, who took it upon herself to re iterate her 'policy' on consent for vaccinations. She confirmed that it was her understanding that "only the person that gave birth to the child" is able to give consent. When I questioned her about parental responsibility and about his Father having equally responsibility she remained adamant that this did not matter and asked if he should bring his son again, he should bring a consent slip signed by myself. Since 2003 a father who is named on a birth certificate has joint parental responsibility. Questioning a loving and dedicated father despite this law suggests that either Nurse Rude has received no training in the past seven years, or that her attitude is extremely sexist and offensive. As your surgery has vicarious liability for her actions, I trust you will take this matter seriously.

I look forward to receiving a written apology from Nurse Rude and hope she will be offered suitable refreshing/updating on the law regarding this.

Yours faithfully,
pissed off mother