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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

In thinking that people with faith or religion are deluded?

481 replies

Alouiseg · 24/04/2010 20:58

This stems from another couple of threads i'm on but until God can be proven isn't religion just an outdated patriachal method of control?

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troublewithtalk · 25/04/2010 15:53

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ooojimaflip · 25/04/2010 15:56

DuelingFanjo - no it's still atheist - see the other thread that's running for a full discussion ;)

ooojimaflip · 25/04/2010 15:56

troublewithtalk - I find it difficult to think of anything MORE gender specific than a womb!

forehead · 25/04/2010 16:00

YABVVU and ignorant.

troublewithtalk · 25/04/2010 16:03

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AmberTheHappyLuddite · 25/04/2010 16:03

Why is it "deluded" to critise religion? Come on troublewithtalk, back up your assertion. The simple fact that somebody beleives something is no justification for that belief to be protected from critisim.

Being religious is no different to believing that communism, fascism, confusim (sp?) or any other philosophy has merit. Yet somehow people tend to take the critisim of relgion so much more personally. I don't understand it myself.

northernlight1974 · 25/04/2010 16:03

YABVU and completely disrespectful of other people's values and beliefs.It is extremely insulting to call people deluded because of their beliefs.I'm catholic ,not deluded.

troublewithtalk · 25/04/2010 16:04

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AmberTheHappyLuddite · 25/04/2010 16:05

Why should religion be respected?

Why?

Seriously.

AmberTheHappyLuddite · 25/04/2010 16:06

Case proven, troublewithtalk.

You have nothing. Religion is a delusion. It is a delusion you are entitled to have, but a delusion none the less.

runnybottom · 25/04/2010 16:06

Well, you are to people who are quite certain there is no God. Be honest for a minute, don't you think that people who say that are a little deluded? You have to, if your belief is true and strong.
Its not necessarily a negative thing, just an observation.

Alouiseg · 25/04/2010 16:07

Come on then northenlight1974 Where's the proof?

Or is it just a "value system" that you choose to adhere yourself to?

If i am being Unreasonable, you tell me how you are being Reasonable?

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ooojimaflip · 25/04/2010 16:07

Forhead/troublewithtalk - How can it be unreasonable for someone who does not believe in god to think that those that do are deluded? If someone does not believe in god AND believes those that do are NOT deluded, then they think that there own views are delusional.

troublewithtalk · 25/04/2010 16:11

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runnybottom · 25/04/2010 16:12

Bollocks. Plain and simple bollocks.

Not a very robust faith if its so easily hurt and threatened is it?

Tinnitus · 25/04/2010 16:13

Nightbynight,

I'm sorry but you're talking utter nonsense and you know it. You know perfectly well that atheists and anti theists are in part persuaded that religious morality is oxymoronic. Non religious morality is inherently superior to religious morality because it comes from the individual not outside imposition. Morality is by definition what we believe to be true, not what we are told to believe.

Next time you and your fellow faithfuls get together, try suggesting something opposed to Christian values. see how flexible and open minded you all are then. Atheist and anti theists are not constrained in such a way, thus we are better able to justify our morality.

Alouiseg · 25/04/2010 16:14

"it's a lifestyle choice" Yep, not faith or any kind of epiphany but a lifestyle choice.

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troublewithtalk · 25/04/2010 16:19

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madhairday · 25/04/2010 16:20

yanbu to think it, OP. Tbh I am quite convinced that if I did not have the faith I have I would be utterly scornful towards those with faith, because from the outside it looks a load of bunkum.

However, I do have that faith, and in a pretty big way. There is not much I can say beyond that on a thread like this though; I cannot qualify it with proof. I could offer many anecdotes, personal and otherwise; but as someone further up the thread yet these are seen as a shaky kind of evidence. Even if I tell about a friend who has been healed and medically proved to be this cannot be taken as a kind of proof because it's still only word of mouth, and only word of mouth from some random mad delduded woman on the internet.

So not much I can say, but thought I would join in anyway on the side of the deluded. We is not all fick as two short planks, and many of us have studied and thought through it all in a lot of depth, and still come up with the faith thing.

Riven, you make a lot of sense, as ever.

One more thing though and this will doubtless settle me in many minds as the resident nutter. To all of you making statements such as 'faith is ok as long as they are quiet about it and don't shove it at others' (or similar)....well, thing is, if my faith was so lukewarm as to support that kind of view, what would be the blardy point of it all? I'd prefer to be completely athiest than just believe in something 'to make me feel happy' but not think its importance worth talking about.

I'm not saying I'm a manic street preacher; but only that I am so very convinced and sure in what I believe that I think it would be wrong of me not to say stuff, if the opportunity arose. OK, not to shove it at people who simply don't want to hear or discuss, but at least to live my life in a way that supports what I believe, and to share that if it seems right/Ok to. Iyswim.

AmberTheHappyLuddite · 25/04/2010 16:23

troublewithtalk

being offended is no substitute for a rational argument.

ooojimaflip · 25/04/2010 16:25

troublewithtalk - I am a 'fan' of The BHA on facebook - there are some right twats on there. Some sensible people too. Their public statements I tend to agree with as they mainly assert the right of the non-religous to be achnowledged and that faith groups should not have preferential treatment. There is a bit of mission creep sometimes.

ooojimaflip · 25/04/2010 16:27

Has anyone got an explanation for how someone who does not believe in a god can NOT believe that those that do are delusional?

troublewithtalk · 25/04/2010 16:27

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runnybottom · 25/04/2010 16:27

There are atheist organisations? And they aren't benign or harmless?
Where do I sign up? Do we get badges? What malevolent and harmful shenanigans go on?

Do share!

Alouiseg · 25/04/2010 16:29

madhairday you are the only poster "with faith" to make it sound reasonable, and pleasant and personal. You don't sound as if you're in it for the social side either.

Best of luck to you.

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