Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

In thinking that people with faith or religion are deluded?

481 replies

Alouiseg · 24/04/2010 20:58

This stems from another couple of threads i'm on but until God can be proven isn't religion just an outdated patriachal method of control?

OP posts:
nighbynight · 24/04/2010 23:56

God bless you, UQD. I will pray for you.

MisSalLaneous · 24/04/2010 23:56

OP, of course you are being unreasonable. Well, and rude, but hey, I'm for living and let living, so you say and believe whatever you fancy.

SolidGoldBrass · 24/04/2010 23:57

nighbynight: IN general, people are not required to hide their superstitious allegiances in the workplace so much as they are required not to harass their colleagues with their nonsense. An employee who frequently tells colleagues they are sinners, or pesters them to come to [crap-peddling event] is out of order, one who gets on with his/her work but states when asked thats/he is a believer in some nonsense or other is not.

DuelingFanjo · 24/04/2010 23:58

"try wearing a long coat and headscarf in Cardiff or Plymouth (2 examples, from my own experience).
White skinned people wearing these symbols attract violence, it is not just racism. "

I live in Cardiff, I am an Atheist. Nothing would ever make me attack a person in religious dress. Nothing at all. I don't think these kinds of attacks are particular to Atheists.

ooojimaflip · 24/04/2010 23:58

Pixie - No Atheism is the assertion that I don't believe in god. It is a statement about my personal mental state. It says nothing about the actual existence of god.

nighbynight · 25/04/2010 00:01

DF - the point is, that as soon as I pointed out that many atheists cant design a moral framework on their own, you extrapolated to the pointed question "and christians can?" which obviously begged the answer no, which you have now confirmed in your last post.

I dont agree with you that the religious people have no advantage over the atheists when constructing a moral framework. They have the teachings of their religion, and are regularly encouraged to think about how to be a better person etc.

ooojimaflip · 25/04/2010 00:01

Anyway there is a distinct lack of rigour here. 'Belief' is being used to mean several different things, we don't have an adequate definition of the characteristics of 'god' to believe in or not, and we keep geting bogged down in semantics.

B- all round.

;)

BitOfFun · 25/04/2010 00:01

Racist attacks against veil-wearers are still informed (if you can call it that) by prejudice against against Muslims which stems from racism though. Not irreligiousity. Same way that white civil rights campaigners have been murdered for being seen to 'betray' the racist cause of the Ku Klux Klan.

ooojimaflip · 25/04/2010 00:02

nighbynight - The idea that millions of people acting together make better judgements than individuals, is dubious to say the least.

pigletmania · 25/04/2010 00:04

BitoFun Alleluia!

ooojimaflip · 25/04/2010 00:04

It matters less WHY someone is attacked than the point that you just SHOULDN'T BEAT PEOPLE UP.

pigletmania · 25/04/2010 00:05

Though I am a Christian and strong in my faith, I dont go out to convert or preach to people that is not something i feel comfortable doing. As they say god works in mysterious ways

onagar · 25/04/2010 00:05

I think my moral framework serves me well enough and it doesn't include homophobia.

Not all christians/muslims are homophobic, but their religions are. I don't think this supports the idea that religions are useful for moral framework building. Except as an example of what not to do.

DuelingFanjo · 25/04/2010 00:06

"I dont agree with you that the religious people have no advantage over the atheists when constructing a moral framework. They have the teachings of their religion, and are regularly encouraged to think about how to be a better person etc."

and I had the teachings of my parents who provided me with a good moral framework. I don't think Athiests have an advantage over Christians or vice versa. I think some of us luck out and some of us don't.

BitOfFun · 25/04/2010 00:07

Piglet- now we can all go home...it's solved!

pigletmania · 25/04/2010 00:10

Alleluia BitOfun

ooojimaflip · 25/04/2010 00:11

Pixieonaleaf - "Oojimaflip - your argument for the existence of Africa: Some pieces of fruit and some pictures."

Yes.

And?

My point is that is more evidence than there is for the existence of god.

So my confidence in the existence of Africa (based on my beliefs in how that evidence could have been created, the likelihood or motive for a conspiracy to fake it etc) is 'near certain' (this as high as I am generally willing to go for anything other than my own existence).

My confidence in the existence of god is 'near zero' - as there is no evidence to move me off this level, which is my base for anything that is not logically impossible.

PixieOnaLeaf · 25/04/2010 00:21

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

boiledeggandsoldiers · 25/04/2010 00:52

UQD
"Otherwise we would all maintain neutral positions on the existence of invisible rhinoceri. Most of us don't - as nobody seriously claims they exist."

But that's the point - millions of people, claim that God exists. Whether we like it or not, the followers of God or gods have a lot of influence globally and locally, so the question of the existence of god warrants objective analysis. It's too important a question just to dismiss.

The question of the existence of invisible rhinoceri does not warrant such analysis because people that believe in invisible rhinoceri (if any such persons exist)are not affecting your choice of schools for your children, or foreign policy, etc, etc. It's an irrelevance.

Tinnitus · 25/04/2010 01:09

nighbynight

I'm sorry but that just doesn't make any sense at all.

If I, as an anti- theist, do a good act, you can be certain I wish to do good for its own sake.

If you believe you must do good or you will go to Hell, then I can question your morality and altruism because it is imposed. You are entirely handicapped in constructing your own moral framework because you are discouraged or forbidden from doing it at all. you are given one on a plate and you follow it because you fear God or his damnation, not because you might be a good person.

I'm not saying that faithfuls are necessarily not good, just that you have chosen to argue for religion on perhaps its weakest point.

IMoveTheStars · 25/04/2010 01:15

OP, are you competing with DP for most offensive post? You're talking shite, sorry.

(and I'm as athiest as they come - but would not question another's beliefs)

You twat.

Tinnitus · 25/04/2010 01:23

JarethTheGoblinKing

Just an idea, but perhaps you could go back and read the OP. and see if your post makes any sense. I don't see where it questions anyones belief, just the nature of organised religion.

If you need any help with this you can ask an adult.

IMoveTheStars · 25/04/2010 01:40

"In thinking that people with faith or religion are deluded?

is stems from another couple of threads i'm on but until God can be proven isn't religion just an outdated patriachal method of control? "

yes, read the OP again. thanks for the tip.

The first statement is antagonistic to people with Faith.

Less of the patronising tone, darling.

CheerfulYank · 25/04/2010 01:48

YABU, of course there's a God.

Now, on to the important business at hand. UQD, in Buffy, have you gotten to the musical episode yet? Frakkin' GREAT, man!

IMoveTheStars · 25/04/2010 01:51

Once more with feeling?

love it. UQD, watch it.