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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to not want to breastfeed?

704 replies

VixeyV · 20/04/2010 23:04

Hi this is my first post but I have been a lurker since the start of my pregnancy.

Anyway, my question is I'm 20 weeks pregnant and the midwife keeps pushing me into breastfeeding. I just don't want to and don't get why she won't stop asking me how I'll feed.

To be honest, the thought of it freaks me out. I didn't breastfeed my daughter and she's fine on formula, she has aptimal because that's the best.

So what do you think? Should my midwife stop nagging me?

OP posts:
AngryWasp · 26/04/2010 17:38

It's the best looking doncha think?

RubyBuckleberry · 26/04/2010 18:13

"TITTY..... YOU ARE EXACTLY THE SORT IF PERSON I AVOID IN REAL LIFE!!!!

You have your head stuck up your own bf bum and obviously are obsessed about bf!!! Like someone said its not always what you say but how you say it!

THANK THE LORD YOU ARE NOT ONE OF MY FRIENDS!!!!"

LindenAvery · 26/04/2010 18:23

Ok - Find me anywhere please the science that shows the 'special ingredients' in a brand of formula actually are formulated correctly so that they can be absorbed by the baby.

Plenty of things can be added to formula - doesn't mean it actually gets digested and absorbed by the baby - would guess that the majority of it just 'passes thru'. I like how the advert for toddler milk makes a big deal of how much iron is in '2 cups' compared to cow's milk. Well yes that much iron might be in the product - doesn't mean it is formulated in such a way to be absorbed by the baby.

Still a big con - formula adverts get passed on to the ASA all the time and have to be amended. Trouble is it takes time for the ruling to be passed. The Aptimal one has been changed from it's original broadcast - because of the so subtle link to it helping the baby fight off germs in the environment. Doesn't matter as the message has well and truly hit home anyway!

tittybangbang · 26/04/2010 18:34

SPARKLYMUM - have reported your post.

AngryWasp, my understanding is that Milupa have made a special effort to target their marketing of Aptimel to health professionals, particularly midwives. I know they advertise their product heavily in the BJM (or at least they did when I last bought it a couple of years ago, they might have stopped running these adverts recently as there was a big outcry by midwives about it. I only buy Practicing Midwife now, which doesn't contain ads for formula, and says so on the cover!).

Milupa have been really clever with their marketing of Aptamil. They have ridden on the back of the 'breast is best' campaign more than any other company. Every single piece of marketing points flags up the qualities of breastmilk, which makes Milupa look altruistic - as though their main interest is the health of babies. But then they undermine this message by pointing out how similar their product is - implying that it offers similar benefits. The design of the box is more sober and 'sciencey' than the other formulas - it looks more like a medicine or a prescribed food supplement than powdered milk.

They have been accused of deliberately targeting breastfeeding mums with their focus on the benefits of breastfeeding, also with deliberately pricing their milk higher than all the rest, so it will be perceived as a 'premium' product. Breastfeeding mothers who may feel guilty about supplementing or stopping breastfeeding are more likely to buy a milk they believe to be a premium product, and are also more likely to go on using formula beyond the end of their baby's first year. In fact over all, mothers who choose to breastfeed use more formula than mothers who choose to ff from birth, because they are less likely to switch to unprocessed cows milk when their baby is a year old. Milupa place adverts not just in Pregnancy and birth magazines, but have also run full-page ads in the Independent and in the Observer Women's supplement - they have clearly made a decision to target an audience in which the vast majority of women would be planning to breastfeed, but then their main competitor is breastmilk, so no surprise there. Oh, and apparently they have also run promotional events at Pizza Express as well!

RubyBuckleberry · 26/04/2010 18:44

"Breastfeeding mothers who may feel guilty about supplementing or stopping breastfeeding are more likely to buy a milk they believe to be a premium product, and are also more likely to go on using formula beyond the end of their baby's first year."

That is evil! Honestly, I feel like boycotting Milupa now!

thesecondcoming · 26/04/2010 18:58

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

AngryWasp · 26/04/2010 19:05

Yes, I do believe that advertising = premature ending to breastfeeding.

If you are struggling with breastfeeding and you see an advert (that you saw many times before children) that sells formula as a 'closest to breastmilk', you are possibly going to think that the difference is marginal therefore and possibly turn to it in relief.

If the truth be known that the one feed destroys the protective lining of the gut leaving it open to things that really should not get into the blood stream plus increases risk of diabetes and obesity then you might seek an alternative solution to your breastfeeding problems, but it is easy when you are having a hard time, to allow yourself to fall for the formula stuff because you are vulnerable to it, in much the same way that overweight people are often vulnerable to instant weight loss plans which are also unhealthy, at least, more unhealthy than the alternatives.

sungirltan · 26/04/2010 19:20

alle01 - its a piece of cake. good for you

excellent posts, angrywasp :-)

SarfEasticated · 26/04/2010 19:20

i used aptamil when mix feeding my LO and it was great, no complaints. I was very greatful for it when my baby had jaundice, wouldn't wake to feed, and couldn't latch on properly. I was pumping but not getting enough to flush the jaundice out.

We do KNOW it's not as good as breast milk, but some of us don't have a choice. Thank god my LO is old enough not to need milk anymore, so now I don't have to feel awful for giving it to her.

To be frank I felt terrible that I had to give her formula at all, and felt I had completly failed her. Whether or not I should have got better help quicker, I still felt I would have appreciated support and less harsh judgement from other mothers.

FUnnily enough it has made me a better person and less likely to judge others when they do things 'wrong'.

thesecondcoming · 26/04/2010 19:49

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Olifin · 26/04/2010 20:53

I'm surprised to hear some posters say that they have only met women who found bfing enjoyable on mumsnet.

I have met quite a lot of women who enjoyed bfing, both online and in RL, including a couple of old biddies who, when I was feeding in public, came over to coo and tell me how lovely bfing was and what lovely memories they had of it. They didn't look like lentil-weavers either. They were department store grannies.

And besides, as has been pointed out several times here, it is quite possible (and in fact likely) that many of the women who have had some wonderful and delightful times bfing, have also had some extremely frustrating, upsetting and difficult experiences with it too. I know I did. Nonetheless, if I had the chance again (if only), I would accept those bloody awful bfing moments for the chance to also have those bloody amazing moments once more.

All I'm saying is that I don't think it's that unusual to find women who enjoy bfing; apart from the fact that it's quite unusual to find women who bf at all, if the stats are to be believed.

sparklycheerymummy · 26/04/2010 21:02

i give up.....very sorry i offended you TITTY but i feel you may have offended many people on here indirectly....consider me well told off and sat on the naughty step.

for what its worth......breast is best but a mothers mental health is paramount. i felt the ref to child abuse and mental health very severe to put on here.

i am not good at getting my point across in real life and this is me trying to be a bit bolshy but i dont seem to get it right and usually shy away from debates like these on here. i made myself miserable in pregnancy worrying about bf and i just dont think it is necessary.

it was however a personal reference which i gather is not the done thing......what i should have said is i dont like the way you put things!!! Fortunately even my bf friends are very open minded and we support each other no matter how we feed our babies.

The OP should not have posted in AIBU.

lovely74 · 26/04/2010 21:23

AngryWasp I see what you're saying but there has to be a balance. Formula will never be as good as BM, and the companies are awful in implying this as they are targeting pretty vulnerable people, but formula does have a place. I also had a baby with jaundice following a long hellish labour and days on an awful post natal ward where we were both out of it. I bf and expressed, but he still needed more, so I supplemented. My first night home I hadn't slept for 5 days, so when I fell asleep my DH left me to it and ff DS that night.
After this the MW who came to vist me the day after I came home told me not to use my pump for at least two weeks or I'd get mastitis. I was in agony feeding, so again I supplemented a handful of times, at the same time as going to bf groups and seeing a bf counsellor.
The first time I read that just one formula feed can ruin the flora in the gut, I felt awful. But why should I???? the first two months of bf were completely awful, and DS did lose some weight. I didn't want to ff but if I hadn't turned to it the times I did, what would my alternative have been? Apart from the physical difficulies the psychological affects of dreading the next feed are awful. If it had been all or nothing, I think i would have gone onto "nothing" very quickly.
As far as the OP goes, simply tell your MW not to ask again. you've made your choice.

Olifin · 26/04/2010 21:28

Formula does have a place, certainly, but I don't see why it needs to be advertised. We all know it is there as an alternative to breast milk.

lovely your story amply demonstrates how certain sets of circumstances can easily lead to a mother stopping bfing to ff and I'm sure most of us can totally understand why you made the decision to ff, when you did. Hope you don't still feel bad about it.

sparkly I totally agree that the OP shouldn't have posted this here. The strange circumstances (first post, having lurked for so long) lead me to suspect she was just being a bit of a tinker and trying to cause a bun fight. Which she seems to have succeeded in doing.

sparklycheerymummy · 26/04/2010 21:33

well i am not getting involved anymore .... i am far too sensitive for threads like this and it genuinely upsets me...... like i said.....way too sensitive!!! I have issues with never being listened to and noone valuing my opinion so a debate on bf versus ff is a bad place for me to be.

i must admit i didnt think they could use the term breastmilk substitute..... but they do and have you noticed only follow on milk is advertised on tele..... i cant remember seeing a stage 1 or 2 formula on there????!!!!

Olifin · 26/04/2010 21:35

They're not allowed to advertise the early milks sparkly

But I've noticed how they sneak pics of very young-looking babies into the ads for follow-on milks!

SloanyPony · 26/04/2010 21:35

The all-or-nothing factor is a concern which could ultimately undermine breastfeeding for some.

Things like the virgin gut, the fact that a good chunk of studies that produce evidence regarding the health benefits of BF are apparently (correct me if I'm wrong) about exclusively breastfed babies who are exclusively breastfed for a year or more, as opposed to your mostly breastfed for around 6 monthers.

And interesting as it was, hearing about how a 10pm feed straight from the breast can deliver special enzymes that aid learning (or something to that effect, a few pages back) - fascinating, but even my exclusively breastfed for over a year children have been wronged in a way, being given expressed milk 4 days out of 7 at the "dream feed" ! Interesting nonetheless though!

I know a woman who gave her 9 month old fresh unprocessed cows milk when she went back to work - and later confessed it was so she could say he'd "never had formula"

Its all relevant medication information so it does have to be shared but from a "marketing" point of view, perhaps in the NHS etc, particularly in relation to new recruits, an "every breastfeed counts" type approach might be more effective...

scottishmummy · 26/04/2010 21:41

these threads have useful purpose.stops precious moments mamas berating the working mums for slamming their children in nursery which causes
stress
attachment disorder
sociopathic tendencies
bunions
halitosis
and hell they will not retract any of it

ah i can hear the rattle of biddulph tambourine or is it the hormonal love dance

Olifin · 26/04/2010 21:45

But why the need to take the piss out of others' experiences scottishmummy?

scottishmummy · 26/04/2010 21:49

what are you on about?bf/ff always end in a ruck thats a mn inevitability.a scrap and humphy faces

do find me the bit were i take the piss out of anyone feeding mode

i do assert that feeding and working mums threads on mn produce wild responses and alarming claims

sparklycheerymummy · 26/04/2010 21:50

here here sloany i think i mentioned that earlier...... a much better way of looking at bf is to celebrate what people CAN do rather than being negative and scaremongering!!!

a dear friend of mine tragically miscarried at 26 weeks a few years ago.....she has since gone on to having 2 healthy daughters.....she hit the nail on the head......

"i have my babies and bf didnt work but they are here.....happy, healthy and not hungry!!!!!!"

After miscarrying her first child she wasnt about to beat herself up about how to feed her babies.....she is a wonderful mum.

tittybangbang · 26/04/2010 21:51

Sparkly - thankyou. But not to worry - I expect responses like yours. Whenever anyone on these boards raises a concern about formula use they get flamed, no matter how hard they try to keep the comments objective and not make personal criticisms of individual mums.

"for what its worth......breast is best but a mothers mental health is paramount". This is so simplistic. A mother may be depressed because she is finding feeding difficult. She may feel less depressed when she stops, but sometimes, she continues to feel sad. The answer to difficult breastfeeding isn't always 'stopping bf is best'. There are countries like Norway where almost EVERYONE breastfeeds, and breastfeeds for months and months. We should be asking ourselves, what is it about the way mothers are living in this country that is making something which is normal physiological function, something that has been a central part of motherhood and infancy since we crawled out the bogs, emotionally and physically impossible for so many of us?

Instead we say 'oh it doesn't matter' and shout anyone down who says it does.

Would also want to point out that higher rates of breastfeeding in general are associated with better maternal postnatal mental health. Bet there are just as many women who don't breastfeed who would have avoided PND by breastfeeding, as there are women who are tipped into PND by difficult breastfeeding.

"what's the alternative...starvation"

The alternative is vastly better breastfeeding management in hospitals, so that hardly any women are put in this difficult situation to start with. Unicef argues that about 1 in 10 babies born in UK hospitals might benefit from some supplementation at birth - either with expressed breastmilk, colostrum or with formula. In my local hospital over 50% of breastfed babies are getting formula before discharge because of the lack of support for breastfeeding on the postnatal wards, plus the widespread use of pethidine which is leaving a lot of mums with babies too sleepy to latch on in the first 24 hours.

And if it wasn't for people like you accusing anyone who shows any concern about this situation of being a 'zealot' then they'd probably start to get to grips with it all a bit faster.

"i felt the ref to child abuse and mental health very severe to put on here".

Why? If breastfeeding might affect the manner in which a mother interacts with her baby in a way which minimises the likelyhood of abuse - isn't this interesting and worth knowing about? Whose interests are protected by making this subject unmentionable?

"but if you aren't able to\don't want to breastfeed for whatever reason then why shouldn't you be able to see advertisements about formula".

If you are choosing the main source of sustenance for your baby for the first year of its life, surely you shouldn't be looking at adverts to help you decide which one to use, as adverts are - by their nature - the least likely source of honest and unbiased information about a product.

"i really don't think an advertisement is going to prevent anyone from bf do you".

Thats a very simplistic way of looking at it. Advertising and marketing doesn't work that way. Formula companies do everything they can to present their product as scientific, safe and good for babies. They create an aura of acceptability, trust and reliability about their product. They will never tell you about the risks to your baby of using their milk, and beyond putting in tiny letters 'breastfeeding is best for babies' will also not point out how their product compares to breastmilk (its main competitor) in respect to how well it's tolerated by babies.

And the wide availability and high profile of formula does impact on breastfeeding rates. There is clear evidence of this in country after country.

clacketyclack · 26/04/2010 21:51

Angrywasp - sometimes there is NO option!!

I talk as someone who relactated (no mean feat if you've never had to go through that), I HAD to mix feed with formula until I got my DD to latch on (at 4 wo) as even though I expressed every two hours day and night then every 3 hours when DP went back to work, I wasn't able to express enough. I was very relieved to reach for the formula when DD wouldn't latch and was screaming after drinking the last of the expressed milk (and don't mention milk banks etc, that is not realistic at 2am when you are the end of your tether and in pain from labour).

And no, it didn't lead me to finish breastfeeding early, by 6 weeks she was exclusively bf. But I am eternally grateful for formula, despite the fact according to you I had destroyed her virgin gut and left her open to all kinds of problems. What damage have I done and how could I have avoided it I wonder? Do you really think posts like yours are helping the bfing cause? Yes, let's scare the shit out of everyone so they feel they have no other option but to struggle and struggle rather than let a drop of formula pass their baby's lips...

Agree with sloany's "every breastfeed counts" approach...

Olifin · 26/04/2010 21:54

scottishmummy I was referring to what I perceive as your piss-taking with the phrase 'hormonal love dance'. That's what I meant by taking the piss out of people's experiences as I assumed your comment was in response to earlier references to bfing dance etc.

sparklycheerymummy · 26/04/2010 21:56

scottishmummy my dd was in nursery full time at 5 months...... i better check her feet and breath!!!! LOL

Oh and I weaned her at 15 weeks.

and i only bf her for 3 days.

she has asked to try my breast milk..... she is 8......and she doesnt want it from a cup or a spoon or a bottle??????????????????????????????????????????????????????