AIBU to not want to breastfeed?

[VixeyV]

Hi this is my first post but I have been a lurker since the start of my pregnancy.

Anyway, my question is I'm 20 weeks pregnant and the midwife keeps pushing me into breastfeeding. I just don't want to and don't get why she won't stop asking me how I'll feed.

To be honest, the thought of it freaks me out. I didn't breastfeed my daughter and she's fine on formula, she has aptimal because that's the best.

So what do you think? Should my midwife stop nagging me?

"is that while breastmilk is optimum food for babies breastfeeding is not always the optimum feeding choice for the mother,the baby (who maybe failing to grow and spend a lot of time screaming with hunger while an increasing fraught mother feels even more shite about not being able to 'do something so natural for her baby')no matter how well supported she is"

I have never said that bf is 'always' best for the mother. Sometimes what is best for the mother is not to breastfeed, and that is that.

"and that all the crap spouted on about this celestial cloud of breastfeeding bonding is damaging to 'the sisterhood'"

LadyT - no-one is trying to make a case for breastfeeding being the only way to stimulate the release of oxytocin. But breastfeeding mothers have increased levels of both prolactin and oxytocin postnatally. I would also argue that they have more skin to skin contact with their babies as they are likely to be feeding more often and holding their babies more often in the first few days and weeks of life.

Nobody has talked about breastfeeding being an 'ecstatic' or 'heavenly' experience, - you have used hyperbole to ridicule me and the point I made. Shame on you. Schoolgirl tactics.

"and is neither the be all and end all of parenting or the norm amongst breastfeeding mothers"

Again - who has said it is the 'be all and end all' of parenting? Or implied it? You have chosen to read this into the posts I made, though there is nothing in them to suggest that I believe this.

You want to ridicule my arguments by distorting and inflating the beliefs I've expressed here - I can only imagine because it makes you feel uncomfortable.

And I repeat: you have never experienced established, normal breastfeeding so how are you able to say how it feels? And of course other mothers won't express their feelings about feeding their babies in front of you - they probably pick up on how bitter and angry you are about the whole issue and underplay the role breastfeeding plays in their relationship with their child.

Sorry - this section of my post was directed t tsc

"Nobody has talked about breastfeeding being an 'ecstatic' or 'heavenly' experience, - you have used hyperbole to ridicule me and the point I made. Shame on you. Schoolgirl tactics.

"and is neither the be all and end all of parenting or the norm amongst breastfeeding mothers"

Again - who has said it is the 'be all and end all' of parenting? Or implied it? You have chosen to read this into the posts I made, though there is nothing in them to suggest that I believe this.

You want to ridicule my arguments by distorting and inflating the beliefs I've expressed here - I can only imagine because it makes you feel uncomfortable.

And I repeat: you have never experienced established, normal breastfeeding so how are you able to say how it feels? And of course other mothers won't express their feelings about feeding their babies in front of you - they probably pick up on how bitter and angry you are about the whole issue and underplay the role breastfeeding plays in their relationship with their child".

why can't it be delightful, and exhausting, confusing, frustrating, painful, an amazing piece of biological engineering etc etc etc?

so you can't see it being delightful. thats coolio, but other people might and it isn't fair to berate them or call them smug because they feel that way.

It is without the support I just mentioned that bfing can quite frankly become a pita, and the benefits to the mother on a purely hassle level reduce and can make her miserable. In these circumstances I can quite see how ff would appear liberating and how she would get annoyed at the implication that bfing is enjoyable and she missed out.

However, in a truly supportive environment, breastfeeding is wonderful and amazing and it is a shame for the many women who do miss out, not to mention the babies.

"and that measurable effect is not always one of pleasure-we'll never agree".

No, of course not! I have not said that breastfeeding is a 'wholly pleasurable experience' at any point on this thread! I myself have done 5 years of breastfeeding and in that time have experienced very extreme highs and lows. Sometimes I've felt tied down by breastfeeding, or overwhelmed by it. Worried, in pain. Frustrated sometimes - I've wanted to run screaming from the room. But those feelings are part of the geography of breastfeeding, part of the normal story.

"is not just a little bit upsetting for those who've never felt that way about bf.
for those for whom it was a battle whatever reason-even if it was just 'i don't want to'"

Yes - I accept it's upsetting to hear these things said if you have had very negative experiences with or feeling about breastfeeding. It's upsetting for me to think about leaving my daughter to be cared for by someone else when she was just a few weeks old. I read things now about the importance of continuity in the early relationship a mother and her baby and I feel sad about going back to work so early. But I don't respond by deriding those views and insulting people who express them as over-romanticising motherhood, or use words like 'wacko'.

And I have never referred to breastfeeding as a 'spiritual' experience - I have simply talked about it as an intimate way in which mothers and babies mediate their relationship and communicate with each other.

not all breastfeeding women think of it as some deeper spiritual thing,even if they have no real issues with feeding or barriers to it-to suggest they all feel this is a bit wacko-if you can't see that then we'll never agree.

AW, I had a very very supportive environment. Good hv, fantastic loving helpful dp, great family all the things u mentioned. Didn't change the fact that bf was not a wonderful experience FOR ME! I did not miss out, I used my adult brain to make a fully informed decision and have had a happy, loving motherhood that has been amazing in many other ways.
U and I clearly had happy supportive environments, yet very different experiences of bf. Therefore it's unfair to say that bf IS a wonderful and amazing experience full stop. Why is it so hard to add 'for some' to the end?
In regards to the hormones argument. Do all the tests and research u like. EVERY woman experiences completely different hormonal feelings when pregnant, when bf, when holding their baby close. To suggest that someone would experience anything similar to what you personally experienced is too simplistic.
For gods sake people just accept that every single person on the planet experiences it differently, therefore any advice is totally biased and decisions have to be made using solid facts and personal preference!!!!!

can't beleive this thread is still going. has the op been outed as a troll from aptimil's marketing dept yet?

For gods sake people just accept that every single person on the planet experiences it differently, therefore any advice is totally biased and decisions have to be made using solid facts and personal preference!!!!!

Linziwam - it's a 'solid fact' that the act of a baby suckling at the breast causes the release of oxytocin, and that breastfeeding mothers have higher levels of both oxytocin and prolactin in their bodies than non-lactating women.

How they feel emotionally will vary from woman to woman - this is a very subtle issue. But if you breastfeed your hormonal profile after birth will be very different from what it would be if you weren't breastfeeding. Breastfeeding mothers have physiologically normal hormone levels following birth. Non-lactating mothers don't. You can argue until the cows come home about what this means, but it does mean SOMETHING.

You might be interested in some of these abstracts on breastfeeding and mental health in mothers and children:

here

breastfeedingandchildabuse

'how they feel emotionally will vary from woman to woman'

well there you go. You've stated the facts about which hormones are released, and agreed that each women may feel differently emotionally due to these hormones.

I completely agree titty! Couldn't have said it better myself. Oh wait... I did

Oh and obviously have no comment on the fact u have just posted a link entitled 'breastfeeding and child abuse' ....not extremist at all

Linz I know you didn't mean to, but you have made a few assumptions about MY breastfeeding experience. I think this is an apt illustration between anetdotal 'evidence' and research. My post was not about MY experience but about what I have learned, and I do have to admit it took a lot more personal information gleaning than most women could and should be expected to conduct.

However, the women who do this ARE motivated by an interest in the subject and so will without doubt come across and particularly enthusiastic, but this really should not be mistaken for judgemental. The more you learn about breastfeeding in out society in particular the LESS judgemental you become, not more, because it just unbelievable what is stacked against the breastfeeding mother. It is quite hard not to take at least a marginal exception to this when you have the information, whether or not you breastfed triplets or gave up with your PFB on the first day.

I made the assumption that u had lots of wonderful support simply because u stated that 'with the right support bf IS a wonderful amazing experience' I just assumed that u must of had that support otherwise u couldn't possibly know.
Look I completely support bf mothers. I was one for quite some time! I really appreciated the support I recieved at the time and whole heatedly agree that all women who enjoy bf and find it's the best choice for them to be able to bf wherever, wenever they like without anything at all being stacked against them. No ff mother has any right to judge a bfeeder, or tell them that they should be ff. Equally no bf mother has any right to tell ff mothers that they have 'been robbed' or missed out. As titty clearly stated in her post, each individual's emotions will vary, so it's impossible to say who missed out and who made the rightdecision.
I very much appreciated knowing all of the facts about why breast milk was better for my babies health, and the names and scientific descriptions of the hormones within me. The only thing I don't appreciate is being told how I could or would have felt emotionally about something by someone who has never met me. This is what I percieve to be extremist and slightly elitist. If people want to give their personal experiences that's fine. Just try to remember that wen it comes to feelings and emotions, the words. 'i felt' 'you may' and 'some women' may be more accurate than a sweeping generalisation. You may find people are happier to listen to what u have to say.

"well there you go. You've stated the facts about which hormones are released, and agreed that each women may feel differently emotionally due to these hormones"

No - the hormones have roughly the same physiological effect, but as all women are different to start with and are mothering in a wide variety of contexts then they are not going to feel the same! Doesn't change the fact that those women who don't breastfeed are being deprived of the normal mothering hormones which are produced by breastfeeding.

"Oh and obviously have no comment on the fact u have just posted a link entitled 'breastfeeding and child abuse' ....not extremist at all"

What's extremist about posting a link to a something which appears on the UNICEF BabyFriendly website? It's a mainstream site and it's a bloody interesting piece of research!

"The only thing I don't appreciate is being told how I could or would have felt emotionally about something by someone who has never met me."

Aarrgh! I didn't tell you how you should or do feel! I said that the hormones produced by breastfeeding impact on women's emotions after childbirth!

Now you see, I see breastfeeding 'facts' as more than 'health information'.

The facts women seem to be lacking are things such as these:

1. A breastfeed baby in countries where they have unlimited access to the breast will feed every 24 minutes.

2. A breastfed baby can be expected to feed anywhere up to 16 hours in 24.

3. A breastfed baby who had previously slept longer and longer will go back to newborn type patterns around 4-5 months which is normal and usual, and nothing to do with the mother not having enough milk.

4. The milk that you give to a baby around 10 ish is full of enzymes that promote development to be undertaken whilst the baby is asleep. It also becomes 'going to sleep' milk as the bfing relationship becomes more established.

5. The hindmilk/foremilk science can lead to poor supply if a mother focusses on trying to control it.

6. Breastmilk is not consistent. If you express off, you could be giving 'wake up' milk at night time and vice versa. It also changes in flavour according to what the mother eats, thereby preparing the baby for the different flavours when weaning.

FWIW, I had an awful time breastfeeding my first. I hated every minute of it and for a while mix fed. It was the most unrewarding thing I was doing and I did it as a duty and nothing else and it was constant, so much so that the HV's accused me of exaggerating. I felt trapped and burdened and never believed that any bonding was occuring, if anything what occured was resentment.

However, when my second came along I was MUCH more informed and knew what to expect. I set up my environment and family to support me. We all 'thought' that I was supported the first time and people certainly put in the effort, but I had had too much cultural indoctrination for breastfeeding to feel anything other than a chore. I can't say I absolutely loved bfing the second time, but I can say I understand now what all the fuss is about and how women who 'say' they tried, absolutely DID, but were probably and possibly 'trying' the wrong things, and that is by no means their fault.

I don't believe I accused you personally of telling me how I will feel. You have however highlighted the hormonal effects on bf women as though this is how all women would feel this way.
I was simply stating that with all the hormones rushing around your body on top of your own personal feelings and emotions, it is impossible to say how any individual woman will feel about bf. Therefore I believe it's pointless using feelings and emotions as an argument for or against.
I agree with you that ff mothers will not have some of the hormones that are associated with bf. I don't neccesarily believe this makes them deprived. The word deprived suggests a lesser experience, when I would argue that it is simply different. When u are trying not to offend people it's all about the wording.

"but I had had too much cultural indoctrination for breastfeeding to feel anything other than a chore"

I think you have hit the nail on the head angry wasp.

"women who don't breastfeed miss out on normal mothering hormones...ffs."

But they do.

"deciding i am bitter based on my disagreeing with your rose tinted view of breastfeeding-not really"

No - it was your comment about breastfeeding being about nothing more than 'getting milk into a baby', and use of words like 'wacko' (and indeed 'rose-tinted' when I have acknowledged that I myself have found breastfeeding to be hugely challenging at times).

Also your unfair argument tactics, the way you have distorted my views in the process of refuting them. All of those things suggest you are angry and bitter.

Titty, your interest and enthusiasm on the topic of breastfeeding is nothing short of remarkable. But I have been observing you participate in debates about breastfeeding on this forum and another for 5 years now, and its not just the odd bitter unsucessful breastfeeder you upset or enrage.

If you really do feel that you are continually being misunderstood and quoted out of context, could you not just consider for a minute it might be something to do with your approach and style of writing, rather than simply resorting to the fact that everyone else must just be bitter and angry?

Sloany You may have a point were it not for the fact that a good number of pro-breastfeeding posters are quoted out of context and misunderstood. It would appear in a good number of cases, that being 'pro-breastfeeding' leads to this, rather than being called 'titty' iyswim.

Exactly sloany. If anyone could be arsed to read all the posts I have posted on this thread (and i doubt anyone can!) they would see that I have no bitterness, no anger, just maybe a little bit of frustration. And I have found some of the comments on here to be a little sweeping and elitist. That's honestly not an attack on anyone, I just feel that certain posters may find a much warmer response if they thought a little more about the wording they used.
At the end of the day, breastmilk is better for your baby than formula, for a number of scientific reasons. Some women find that the hormones their body produces whilst feeding really helps them to bond with their baby and creates an amazing emotional dance between them and dc. Some women find that these hormones have no emotional effect on them whatsoever. And some women find that they feel much calmer, motherly and bonded with dc once they ff and the hormones die down. None of these women are lesser mothers or deprived of anything. Full stop.

Thankyou AngryWasp.

And you're dead right. There is a sort of logic to the way these discussions go. Lots of straw man arguments, lots of quoting out of context, people taking doubts raised about formula or formula feeding as personal criticism of their ability to care for their baby properly.

Linziwam - I appreciate that you want to have the last, authoritative word on what breastfeeding is and what it means to women and babies, but I'm afraid you're going to have to accept that this is a very complex area which draws in all sorts of cultural issues. I would say that 'at the end of the day' there is something going on in this country which is discouraging a disproportionate number of women from wanting to breastfeed and damaging the chances of the majority of those who choose to breastfeed to do it as long as they want and to feel happy about it.

I don't think that the situation we have in the UK - where one in four babies is never put to the breast at all, and the majority of the rest are only breastfed for a few weeks, is either 'normal' or 'desirable' for mothers and babies. What's happened in the past few decades with the way babies are fed is the most extreme change in the whole history of human nutrition, going back thousands and thousands of years.

People on these threads saying 'it doesn't matter how babies are fed as long as the mother is happy' will never convince me that this is something that can be dismissed with a few platitudes or assurances of 'happy mother, happy baby', or 'all women are different'.

I would never claim to have any authorative word on what bf means to mothers and babies (unlike some obviously) I meant full stop, I have no more to say right now.
It would be lovely if we could all agree that a little more compassion and understanding of whatever each individual is feeling might help. I see now that will never happen. Remind me to never ever get involved in a thread like this again, even if it is to present both sides. I leave this thread feeling very sad that even the importance of a happy mother can be questioned in order to promote one side.

It was good talking to those of you without your blinkers on, from both sides of the debate! X

Gosh. You're so impartial and caring. [retrieves eyeballs from back of sockets]

[off to thrash self with big stick as obviously very uncaring person with no understanding of anyone elses feelings. Unlike Linziwam]

aptimel closest to breast milk?, breast milk is individual to your baby in a moment in time, it changes with your baby's needs, there is not such a thing formulated as breast milk, you can promote a product but, making stuff up?