AIBU to not want to breastfeed?

[VixeyV]

Hi this is my first post but I have been a lurker since the start of my pregnancy.

Anyway, my question is I'm 20 weeks pregnant and the midwife keeps pushing me into breastfeeding. I just don't want to and don't get why she won't stop asking me how I'll feed.

To be honest, the thought of it freaks me out. I didn't breastfeed my daughter and she's fine on formula, she has aptimal because that's the best.

So what do you think? Should my midwife stop nagging me?

God, they are your tits - do what you like with them.

And my tits are far nore than just for feeding my kid, by he way. They are, in fact MINE, last time I checked.

No one can 'pressure' you into anything.

There are some seriously WIERD BF nazis posting.

Why do people get so het up about it all ??? Bizarre.

"Probably breast feeding works better in countries where life revolves around the home and extended families means mum isn't home alone for days on end."

What - you mean countries where women have to work as soon as they've physically recovered from the birth because they get no paid maternity leave and have 5 or 6 kids on average?

"If you want to go out - and I would get miserable cooped up all day at home with small sprogs - breastfeeding is not so easy".

Eh? What could be easier than having baby milk on tap, day and night?

Breastfeeding is really easy when you get the nack of it. You barely have to wake up/think before sticking your baby on the boob. No endless bottle washing, and an excuse for a nice sit down and a cup of tea. As for not going out, there is nowhere you can't breastfeeding. Someone posted on here once that they'd done it walking round the supermarket!

Just realised I pretty much echoed what downdog said!

As for scrawny, my dd was a right chunkster baby (not now I should add).

"Probably breast feeding works better in countries where life revolves around the home and extended families means mum isn't home alone for days on end."...

Darn I wish someone had told me that before I proceeded to have 4 children b/f them all and generally get on with my life and going out into the world with no family around and a workaholic dh..

OP YANBU because you dont wish to bf however the apitmal comment suggests you ARE uneducated on this subject so perhaps take some time to read more about it.

If at the end of that you genuinly dont wish to bf then tell your mw this and ask her to stop asking again.

Oh, honestly, all this stuff about bf'ing being so much easier when you're out and about, or at 4am, 'you just whip out a boob' etc.... Well yes, of course it's easier, when breastfeeding is going well. But when every feed is a nightmare of pain and exhaustion, with the baby screaming and you crying, constantly relatching because you can't get it right, then believe me, it's far easier to give a bottle. I've done both (bf'ing for 6 weeks, which only got harder and harder), and for me there was no contest in terms of which was 'easier'.

As for marketing, well of course formula companies have good advertising - they're commercial companies, that's what they do. I hardly think we can blame the companies for producing effective advertising for their own product - which, let's not forget, is a perfectly 'healthy' product (just not quite as 'healthy' as bf'ing). If you don't like it, then you should either lobby the govt to have formula advertising banned (on which basis, you would presumably ban all products for which there is a healthier alternative, such as chocolate, crisps, Coke etc), or you should ask the govt to tax you much more heavily, so that the budget for public health advertising can compete with that for commercial products. Incidentally, I'm quite happy to accept that there is a case for both/either of these courses of action - but I think the wider implications (of heavier taxation, of 'banning' categories of advertising) would have to be very carefully thought through.

Ooh, can I add something else here - because it's precisely what I wanted to say (and, as so often, comes courtesy of Zoe Williams in the Guardian, who I would quite like to persuade to stand as PM ). She's actually talking about the debate between Gina Ford and Penelope Leach over whether or not to leave babies to cry (new research suggests it causes stress and anxiety), but what she says could just as easily apply to bf'ing:

"There is something off with this conversation - the baby conversation all over, from sleeping to crying to feeding - which is that the experts are all addressing themselves to one another. Leach is thinking of Gina Ford when she canters trenchantly into the debate with statements such as: 'It is not an opinion but a fact that it's potentially damaging to leave baies to cry.' It's uncompromising, and the stakes are the very highest (a lifetime damaged). And that's fine as a conversation between competing authorities; they take these clashes as energising, even fun, like a brisk game of British bulldog. But the people who listen to all of this aren't having a fun, brisk game, they're the parents, living the experience. They can really do without the hectoring, and the dagger-on-a-thread over their children's future (mental) health, the blithe 'why risk it?', as though it were all as simple as deciding whether or not to turn the microwave off at the mains...... The facts may be right, but the tone is wrong... A little more compassion, from either, from anyone, would bring a richer credibility."

As usual, Zoe, I couldn't have put it better.

if Colleen et al breastfed and were plastered all over Heat doing so it would inspire more women to try. Posh bfing having lunch at the Ivy - that sort of thing.

Bollocks to Zoe Williams. I've read loads and loads of Penelope Leach, and IMO she's hugely compassionate and pragmatic, and understanding of the complexity of women's lives today.

As for bf being easier than ff - well dysfunctional breastfeeding is always going to be difficult. But then most breastfeeding problems are a) solvable (with the right help help) and/or b) transitory. Talking about what breastfeeding is like when you've never got past early weeks is like trying to comment on what it's like living in France when your only experience of it consists of you spending a week stuck in a ferry terminal at Calais.

"which, let's not forget, is a perfectly 'healthy' product (just not quite as 'healthy' as bf'ing)".

Sorry - we're not comparing non-organic carrots with organic carrots. We're comparing the physiologically normal diet of babies with a diet which consists solely of one artificial food. A diet which is linked to higher rates of hospital admission for a range of common and less common illnesses. Breastfeeding isn't 'extra healthy' - it's normal. Formula is deficient, whatever it says on the tin. If you use breast milk as the standard against which formula should be measured then it is quite clearly lacking. (and medical comparisons always use the physiological norm). And trying to draw conclusions about this issue by making comparisons with diet in later childhood and adulthood is pointless. Diets vary hugely across the world and between communities. But in the first year of life babies thrive best on human milk.

"If you don't like it, then you should either lobby the govt to have formula advertising banned"

Actually it's already illegal to advertise breastmilk substitutes. Which is why formula companies invented follow on formula - so they could keep their products in the public eye. I look forward to the day when the government decides to implement the Code fully, and stop the advertising of follow on formulas.

baskingseals - I couldn't agree more!

EM

Formula advertising/promotion is banned in the uk - only follow on milks from 6 months are allowed to be promoted - and they themselves are products that were brought out by the companies when the ban was introduced - good marketing eh?

That's what my post was about - not the use of formula itself - but the way these incorrect messages are promoted - as well as the 'special' ingredients that are used to suggest this product is superior over that product.

And yes - money is used to promote breastfeeding - not ever likely to be near the amount that the commercial companies use - and what happens - some mums who use formula become unhappy with the idea of it being promoted because it makes them feel guilty and suggests they are doing harm to their babies!

No easy answers here! I think the individual has every right to choose what they want to do (some mums who use formula feel thay didn't have a choice because of circumstances eg lack of help in hospital, poor support when at home, conflicting advice over what to do for the best, pressurised in public that BF is disgusting,formula is just as good as breastmilk,breasts are for my partner...).

The problem is how to promote and educated mums about breastfeeding without then causing all the guilt when someone say is having a rough time BF and switches to formula for whatever reason.I would'nt want to make that mum feel bad about what she has done/had to do - does it mean that mum has to reflect and accept what she has chosen to do and become thickskinned about this issue. Not going to happen is it?

There are some big assumptions being made because every mum is different - not all mums using formula feel it's a big deal or feel guilty so to say they do feel guilty is only going to create trouble.

It's good to hear the discussion - and it's good to question what's the 'norm' and why it is so.

I think that every woman has the right to decide what to feed her baby, i think it's important that every woman feels as comfortable and confidant with her newborn as possible.

However i do find it difficult to be supportive of women who ff their babies - not because i disagree with their decision, it is after all their decision, not mine, but because so few women breastfeed. Breastfeeding is in the minority, and as such needs to be supported. There was a thread the other day where a mnetter had been called a whore for bfing on the bus.

I don't think any woman giving a baby a bottle has ever been called a whore. breastfeeding should be more normalised, the fact that it is the exception and not the norm I think is indicative of skewed thinking in our society, and should make us all question what our priorities in life really are.

Ah, 'dysfunctional' breastfeeding - so that's what I was doing. Glad it's got a name. Makes me feel a lot better about trying to bf my second child in a couple of months' time .

Also glad to hear that most problems are 'solvable' or 'transitory'. Because last time, when I'd spent 6 weeks practically living in the local bf clinic and talking to god knows how many different bf counsellors and helplines, none of whom were able to give me any advice that actually helped, that's really not how it felt. But maybe it was just me. Personally, I'm quite glad that there was well-researched and developed formula available so that, even though I still felt terrible about stopping bf (and still do feel guilty, nearly 3 years on), at least my baby was actually able to survive.

Oh, and before I get poor old Zoe Williams in trouble, she was actually saying elsewhere in the article how much she likes Penelope Leach. Her point was just that she thinks the way these debates are conducted in the media is terribly unhelpful.

ElusiveMoose - was it painful nipples/cracking/bleeding/thrush that made it difficult or establishing supply and other stuff?
If it was thrush/bleeding...etc I have to put a plug in here for silverettes. I'm not saying it would have helped you - just think more people ought to know about them and since you're close to having your 2nd baby I want to tell you! They were a godsend for me. Healed my nipples within 48 hours!! . I suffered for about 16 weeks with wincing in pain every single time he latched on. After about 10 weeks, it only hurt when he latched, before that it would hurt during feeding, too.

Also, for thrush - nystatin for baby is ok, but flucanazole oral tablet really clears it all up for you - other mums and myself all found this to be true. Just demand the tablet as soon as it appears would be my (very limited) advice.

The silverettes are little mini cups that you put over your nipple inside of your bra and not only does the pure silver heal them, but it is a perfect shape, comfortable, prevents wet spots and it separates them from your clothes and unlike breast pads your nipples don't stick to them, they slid right off!

I have mine still and would be willing to part with them for a very small fee (just because they cost me £32) for someone who really wants/needs them.

I don't work for them.
But I should be their poster girl

EM

I suppose that's my point - behind these posts there's a real person with an individual story. Would it be ok to ask you how you are planning to feed this time please? Have your previous experiences put you off or are you intending to BF this time?

One feed at a time and all that...

Piglet:

"...mums who say that those who cannot bf give up too easily, lazy, did not bother to do research, and are letting their babies down, and that because they have not bf their children are likely to be unhealthy because reseach has said so, so it must apply to every child who has not been breastfed and it must be right too."

I have never, ever met anyone in RL who actually thinks this. I really think that it's all in the heads of mums who have stopped before they planned to. Which is really sad We are attacking ourselves and imagining that those around us are attacking us, when really we should accept that we have done our best and move on!

OP - if you think 'a baby sucking on your boob is weird' or the thought of it 'freaks you out' how on earth do you cope with being pregnant and childbirth?

This is an attitude I've never understood.

I really feel for mothers who have tried to breastfeed and for whatever reason were unable to or couldn't keep it up as long as they'd hoped.
I have no sympathy whatsoever for mothers who despite knowing the benefits of BF over FF choose not to give their baby the best nutrition they can because they have a twisted idea of what breasts are for.

OH EM, I thought I interpreted from a previous post that you intended to bf your next child... that's why I wrote that... then LindenAvery's post made me realize I might have put my foot in it! So sorry . I just thought you had said you had a hard time first time and wanted to try this time... babbling now... I'll get my coat.

Linden and Star, thanks for your kind concern . And yes, I'm always quite happy to moan about my experiences .

In brief(ish), I had 3 main problems:

1. DS was not gaining enough weight (though in some ways that was actually the least pressing of my problems, because I know how much weight gain can vary).
2. I had dreadfully cracked and bleeding nipples (huge lateral crack on one side, missing half the nipple tip on the other). Caused obviously lots of pain, but also two infections back to back in weeks 5 and 6 (pretty sure not blocked duct mastitis - both breasts simultaneously scarlet all over, v. high temperature, shaking etc). This was probably the final straw that actually persuaded me to stop.
3. Baby screamed hysterically all the time. And I mean ALL the time (he only slept about 8 hours out of 24, mostly for no more than 30 mins at a time, and the rest of the time he was either on my breast or he was hysterical). If you haven't had a baby like that, it is hard to describe quite how much it affects everything else (e.g. when bf counsellors tell you to 'find a nice quiet time to express' or 'wait until the baby is calm before you try to latch him on', you want to smack them - because these opportunities never, ever arise).

I tried everything (or I like to think I did). Nipple shields (baby wouldn't use), Silverette (didn't work), expressing every different way (got about a tsp of milk), different feeding positions, etc etc etc. Now, I've never bought into the whole 'happy mummy happy baby' platitude, but it got to the point where I really believed that if I didn't stop, I would have some sort of nervous breakdown or physical collapse (plus I was getting seriously worried about DS not getting enough to eat). And believe me, I am a very determined (some would say stubborn ) person, but in the end I had to concede defeat (and I wept for days afterwards).

Did I make the right choice? Yes, I think so. I'll never know what exactly caused DS's relentless screaming, because it didn't stop completely until about 12 weeks, but it certainly got a million times better as soon as I started FF. My theory (completely uninformed) is that there was some physiological reason that made it hard for my son to bf - they did check for tongue-tie, and said that it was either fine or only very mild, but he's always been a very sicky, refluxy baby, and even at 2.7 he has 'issues' with food (caused, I think, by a highly sensitive gag reflex).

To be honest, I wish I'd stopped sooner, with hindsight. From the day of my last bf, it took a full 3 months for my nipples to heal, and I still have quite a bit of scarring - which I'm worried might affect my attempts to bf again.

In answer to your question, Linden, I fully intend to try bf'ing again. But I think it speaks volumes that I'm FAR more worried about the feeding than I am about the birth (even though that was pretty grim first time round as well ).

So there you have it. Maybe I am a bit quick to jump to the defence of FFers, but it just makes me so mad when I hear people saying that women who don't bf aren't sufficiently motivated to do their best for their baby. As I said aeons ago on this thread, every choice you make as a parent affects how your baby turns out (healthwise or otherwise); feeding is just one of those choices, and I think it has to be put in some sort of perspective.

Bertiebotts there have been a few MNetters on here that i have encountered in different threads that do think that way, i cannot remember names and would not like to, but it did upset me and really make me angry, and does nothing to promote breastfeeding imo.

Oh, and just to go back to the OP (who has probably had her baby by now ) - yes, I do understand why other people say she should at least try to bf............ But I think my experience just made me realise that you can never know what it's like to be in someone else's shoes, and I really try hard now not to judge other people's decisions. If she's freaked out by bf, then she's freaked out by it, odd as that might seem to the rest of us. Hectoring her or telling her that she's a bad person for not trying is very unlikely to help.

I find it amazing that there are so many comments along the lines of 'I think mums have a right to choose how they want to feed: their body, their baby'. It's like saying 'I think people over 18 who are resident in the UK,on the electoral register and not in prison have a right to vote in a general election'. It's stating the bleeding obvious! I have never come across anyone, ever, who's tied to suggest that women a) don't have a right to choose how to feed their baby, and/or b) shouldn't have the right to choose.

"Ah, 'dysfunctional' breastfeeding - so that's what I was doing. Glad it's got a name."

Oh come on - no need for that. If breastfeeding is painful or if you're not able to produce enough milk for your baby then breastfeeding is not functioning effectively. In other words it's 'dysfunctional'

"Also glad to hear that most problems are 'solvable' or 'transitory'".

Well - they are. Even if your problems weren't. Sorry.

lol at tbb's first comment. That's very true.

baskingseals the area I live in has very low bfing rates (I'm one of the only people I know round here who bf) and in the maternity dept of the hospital is a collage the midwives made of photos of celebs - such as Ginger Spice, Myleene Klass, Nell McAndrew etc and little snippets of positve things they've said in interviews about bfing their kids.

I agree with you tho that if Heat mag et al had pics of celebs feeding then it'd be more of a norm.

My mum is 50, she ff all of us and I'm the first person she's ever witnessed bfing when I bf my 8 week old DS. It sadly isn't the normal trend everywhere, even though it's a normal bodily process.