To get a teeny bit irritated by people who "parent loudly"

[Rollergirl1]

I was at the swimming baths yesterday and there was a mother with her toddler DD getting her dressed into her swimming costume. They were sat the bench just across from me and mother kept up a running commentary in a booming jovial voice the entire time...

" Come now Evie, shall we take your trousers off now? What colour are your trousers? Are they pink? Can you say pink? Oh good girl! Can you stand up for Mummy? No Evie, stay here like a good girl. Gosh you are a little monkey aren't you. What sound does a monkey make? That's right. Okay, shall we bring Ducky with us? What colour is Ducky? Is he yellow? Oh you clever thing. Can you say ducky? What sound do ducks make? Quack quack yellow ducky." And it went on. And on.

It really isn't a crime atall but I got the distinct impression that it was all for everyone else's benefit and she was expecting everyone in there to comment on her exceptional parenting and how well she interacts with her child, and isn't Evie just the cutest little thing and how old is she.........when instead I was just thinking SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP!!!

I know it probably makes me sound like a right cow but I just find the whole "look at what a great parent I am" thing kinda irksome.

okay - I saw someone asking their very coifed dog if if wanted a vanilla icecream or a strawberry icecream the other day. Coifed dog also had a coat on

(it wanted chocolate but it had no chance)

I have no idea why I posted that here

Conversations skills are taught FIRST by rote learning a particular conversation, and then teaching generalisation.

Love the library example.

The VERY WORST Performance Parents love libraries. It's the perfect arena to broadcast to as many people as possible "SHALL WE CHOOSE HIS DARK MATERIALS NOW, BRUTUS?" (And of course Brutus is rampaging round the soft pouffes and hurling the Spot books everywhere.)

Okay...the thread has turned from reasonably lighthearted, to just downright silly with all this serious business, so I'll say good evening...

You can say a hundred times that it doesn't refer to parents of children with SN, but the very fact that so many of us feel hurt and humiliated at the thought of being judged by you speaks volumes.

I often do look around immediately after 'parenting loudly', because by nature I am quite a quiet person, and I find it embarrassing that I have to say " !: blah blah blah". But due to her sensory processing differences, it is often the only way of getting her attention when so much else is competing for it.

I also have to keep a constant conversation up, because otherwise I 'lose' her.

Do you know, I reckon you lot were probably the playground bullies, just 30 years on.

AngryWasp, there are a number of ways to teach children with ASD conversational skills. Every child is different.

I have worked with children who learned conversational skills by playing cards. It doesn't mean that I am touting it as the only way to teach it.

Rote learning works for some, not for others.

Haven't read whole thread but a post by Belgo near the beginning reminded me of how little of this sort of talk I ever heard from the mums in Spain, where I lived for 20 years.

They never seemed to explain things or talk to their children about anything in fact.

Keep it up I say. Talking to your children is good.

only read OP - i know exactly what you mean, there was a dad doing this in the playground yesterday, and you do think "oh you nob"
but really, these people are TRYING and they are well meaning, and i would 100 x rather hear this than someone putting their child down, or calling them a little brat, or any of the other sad things we all see and try to ignore about 1000 times every week

PLUS i don't know if anyone has pointed this out but if i am having a really crap day, some times parenting loudly like this is the only way i can get through it and carry on being pleasant to my child

the woman you heard may have been on the verge of losing it for most of the day, and keeping it together by doing a rather hammy over performance of a 'good' parent

I suppose Couple. I heard a father in the playground shouting to a little boy.

'No Laurence, get down, you know you're no good at climbing'

Now I try very hard indeed not to be judgy, particularly in my circumstances but I couldn't think of a legitimate reason why that father would say something like that.

RE: the point on teaching of conversation (and wildly off the topic, so just butting in here and then running away).. having done it 'both ways' (ABA and SALT) I have to say that it's the one area in which I feel ABA doesn't always work longer term.

Conversation is very difficult to behaviourally analyse and there are all sorts of inbuilt, subtle and socially mediated contingencies that are difficult to control for even in loose discrete trial teaching. Very hard to generalise. I think the initial stages of statement-statement/statement-question/statement-question-statement can be very helpful and I've seen a good ABA programme where a child was taught minimal responses e.g. 'uh huh' to keep a conversation going.. so not knocking it outright.. but there is a wee bit of an issue with ABA 'teaching' a sort of abnormal interaction, where one partner always a) holds the balance of power and b) always knows how the conversation will go.

I work with teenagers now, in a unit for kids with moderate to high functioning spectrum conditions, and I don't have the answer. Though I've had some positive experiences with Michelle Garcia Winner's socially thinking programme.. there's a conversation game with visual cues that I've adapted with a number of different groups and have seen evidence of some real metacognitive learning.. e.g. kids 'seeing' where the interaction is going wrong in virtual real time and being able to do something about it. (My favourite? A 15 year old going.. 'I was going to crash my words into his again, Miss, but I thought I'm sick of crashing. No more crashing. I'm going to listen to him this time, I think.'

No evidence, of course.. but I like it nonetheless.

Sorry for the intrusion. Totally inappropriate of me but I'm fascinated by conversational teaching.. even if I am crashing

That's really interesting, mrsbean78

Thank you mrsbean. Sounds facinating. I 'think' I understand what you are saying, but when your asd child gets the highest level of SALT awarded which is (and I quote):

'An average of 10 sessions or approximately 90 minutes of SALT annually or until the next review, to include direct and indirect contact as appropriate'

Well, you just have to do your best......

mrsbean How would you say ABA was for introducing conversation in the first place? That is the kind of stage we are at. Turn-taking I suppose - learning the rules etc.

See, I don't have to parent for other people's benefit.

Not when my 16-month old says: "I'm a bit bamboozled now" on a packed commuter train

I never for one minute thought that my interaction with my child (who I carry in an Ergo so there ain't no escaping conversation) was a rich seam to be mined by the mealy mouthed, or insecure, or perennially indignant.

How do you know the looking around isn't one of slight embarrassment, as in "I'm sorry I was a bit loud then", or "I hope you're not looking at me like that because you think I'm a hot-housing, helicopter-parenting show-off.

I relish talking to my child, it's one of the most rewarding aspects of having one, in my opinion. And I'm a bit surprised and a bit deflated that talking to your kid, even in a enthusiastic way is somehow de trop.

After all, one person's 'normal' is another person's 'loud'. One person's 'scanning the room, park, cafe or train', is another's 'looking for approbation from strangers'

What do these loud parents get out of it? I don't go home bothered about whether anyone thinks I'm a good parent to Helvetica/Lilette/Candida.

And I've sat in a baby clinic and on one occasion not heard anyone speak to their toddler, only in fact to tell them to shut up.

This is really about class, isn't it?

Haha unquietdad so do I . It does irritate if I hear other mums (it's always mums), but if my dc's are behaving and I'm in a particularly good mood you'd probably hear me chattering away to & at (because sometimes i just like to hear my own voice) them but never about sorbert lmao at that Debi

And yet, I never talk to my 18month old and she's more advanced than me. Maybe that is why!

Tethers/Mrsbean

Do you have much knowledge of VB? It concentrates on functional language and communication and makes the conversation itself the motivation, and focuses on what the child can get out of the conversation. i.e. THEY are the one that retain control and power in the exchange and learn skills to negotiate a better deal for themselves.

oh crap didnt realise this was 8 pages long

AngryWasp.. I've never quite worked out how I feel about ABA and conversation. I saw the conversational programmes work, undoubtedly, e.g. in that they achieved mastery of the criteria we set for them but the kids I worked with are now all secondary age too (coincidental that I now work with this age group!) - and I don't know how much they use it.. or how natural it is.. In contrast, the kids I work with in the unit have never been ABA'd and there are a number of them whose conversational skills aren't bad. But that might just be individual difference.. Having said that, language/cognitive-wise (and knowing their histories) there isn't a huge differential.

I think ABA is crucial for kids who need to get destructive behaviours under control and that's the key difference with the kids I work with.. they're not spectacularly 'behavioural' (though obviously they have their moments!), so maybe that makes a difference.

Public SALT provision is indeed very limited, but having worked in the system, I now understand this. You will have learned from having ABA in your home the sheer intensity and co-ordination required to make intervention for children and young people with autism to truly work: it's just not feasible with the level of public resources available, when the majority of funds are directed towards diagnostic assessment. This is the main part of my job these days, assessing for diagnosis, but I am fortunate that the secondary unit I work in pays out for some direct intervention, albeit only group therapy once a week. Not ideal.. a far cry from what's available in the States.. and seriously impinges on outcomes. ABA approaches just aren't possible with the time available.

Anyway, sorry again to everyone else for the off topic ramble.

Have not read 8 pages but YABU I reckon.

My eldest was delayed in talking - it took me years to break the "BUS! YES! BIG RED BUS! WHAT COLOUR IS THE LORRY? YES! BLUE LIKE YOUR HAT! ..." habit I developed to boost his conversation.

If everyone else thought I was doing show off parenting like the OP, I'm glad I was blissfully unaware. I think it's a bit sad to assume that everybody is organising their life in an attempt to impress you, most of us are just trying to survive and have no time to worry about what other parents are thinking.

Lucky you if your child is advanced and co-operative and responds to a mere raised eyebrow rather than needing a brisk running commentary on life to keep him on task like mine did.

Thank you mrsbean and to bring it on topic it is interesting to not your comment on the sheer intensity required to make intervention work, so much so that it will be carried over to the swimming pool, and the park etc etc. and probably very very loudly.

A typical coversation with just 3 ds will go;

'Can you undo your buttons? Oh clever boy, you can do your buttons all by yourself. DS, DS where are we? Yes we are at the swimming pool. What are we going to do? Yes you are going to do some swimming all by yourself. VERY clever. What's that? Oh you're right it IS a trapezium. Yes, it has 4 sides so it is NOT a hexagon. Come on, can you untie your shoelaces. Yes that one is LONG and that one is SHORT, good remembering................'

What the people in the cubicle next to us don't know is that he has severe fine motor problems and so does OT exercises every day on undoing buttons so that eventually he'll be able to hold a pencil. They don't know that in order to get him to do this exercise wwe have to tap into his obsession which is 'shapes' and so we agree ti draw a side per button. They also don't know that he has been very scared of water until recently and is also panics when naked. Lots of what we are doing is generalising what he is learning at home and also trying to keep him calm. When all this is in place, he looks and acts like a perfectly normal and bright 3yr old.

Okay, I have finally managed to get back to this beast of a thread (after packing my kids off to bed with a "fuck off" and a cuff to the side of the head, seeing as I obviously don't talk to them).

Right, first off I would like to point out a few words in the subject title. Namely "teeny" and "irritated". I was hardly calling for the mothers head. And yes I did make a snapshot judgement based on zero facts of the actual situation. But don't we all? It was 5 minutes out of my otherwise not unusual day. And yes I started a thread in AIBU about it (personally I don't think it makes me the devil). If people didn't there would be nothing for people to get so irate/debate about on Mumsnet.

So shoot me.

I am sorry if people are upset/offended. But you can't please all the people all of the time. I didn't mean to offend. It was just an observation from my otherwise boring day.