To want my 1 year old to eat healthy food and be left alone about it?

[littlesez]

Ok so I am sure IABU but just wondering if there is anyone who agrees with me eeeeek!

My daughter is 14 months, she eats what I eat which happens to be healthy stuff and often steals it from my plate I dont let her eat sweets, chocolate, cakes, crisps, juice and such but often feel as though people (other mums) think I am being mean Like I am depriving her in some way, just by general comments.

From my girl being a few months old I had MIL (who is generally lovely and just wants to help) asking me to give her some rusk at bedtime and suggesting formula because I had done so well to get this far BF

FIL has started to comment now. She doesnt have meat as I don't eat it, and she doesnt have dairy for a few reasons. He has lectured me about how important Iron and Calcium are for her. My response was that she gets plenty in her diet. He was then questioning me about what she drinks. Have you tried her with ribena? my response is that she has water.

I just don't understand! she eats plenty, loves her food and is healthy so why mess with it?

I know when she is old enough she will go and eat what she wants but while she is a baby I just want her to eat the right stuff and don't think i am depriving her.

I'm not hopping mad or anything just wish people would stop questioning me about what she eats/doesnt eat

Thank you AbFabT - you said exactly what I was going to. People just jump right in, without doing any research, and assume a vegan diet is bad for children - whereas it's actually far better for them.

(Not that the OP is vegan).

tryingtoleave, her PILs have suggested rusk, formula and Ribena!!! I don't think these things are healthier than what the OP is feeding her child!

OP sounds well-informed to me.

Thanks, ChippingIn!
Completely agree - a vegan diet is absolutely optimal.

It is very difficult to provide children with the nutrients they require if you completely cut out meat & dairy. Saying a vegan diet is better for children simply isn't true. If you're planning on restricting a childs diet to that extent you should definitely speak to a dietician especially once you stop bf.

It's lovely to read a few posts with a bit of sense on the whole no cows milk issue!

Ds had formula until 15 months, but aside from the odd milkshake every now and then when we are out, he has no dairy since, and only meat when at parties/ friends houses, never at home (I am really relaxed about food, he can eat what he lies when out etc). He gets calcium from dark green veg etc. 7 years old and no probs at all. The way my friends and family were talking when he was a toddler, you'd think he'd be weak with bendy bones!

I wouldn't be able to find the link now, but i read a very interresting article a few years ago about huge numbers of childhood osteoperois rates in the USA attibuted to chldren having far too much dairy in thier diets. As another poster said, too much calcium fro animal sources can leach calcium from human bones.

Another fact that I found very interresting about vegan diets was about roman gladiators. When a burial site was found, the bones of the gladiators were so strong and in such good condition that it was wrongly assumed (in the 50s I think it was) that they ate a diet high in calcium from animal sources. Turned out that gladiators were vegan as they knew it would make thier bones stronger.

YANBU. Just be relaxed at parties and maybe let your DD just go with the flow. Make sure you get plenty of nutritional advice about calcium. You already know what you're doing with the no meat. Just do your thing and let other people do theirs. Whatever we do, someone else will always criticise it. I remember my DD going to a friend's house when she was little and being asked if she wanted 'ribena or orange squash' and she asked if they had any 'water' .

Clare236 - actually, it simply is true.

However, best we stop this debate here I think (you could start another thread if you wish to debate it), because it's not what the OP was asking.... agree to disagree?

Gladiators had to supplement their diet with animal bone ash to avoid calcium deficency, and they were overweight, so I hardly think they are poster boys for a vegan diet.

I think the OP needs to think about where essential fatty acids are coming from, as an earlier dairy free poster suggested. Choosing vegan cooking oils that are high in long chain fatty acids can make a huge different to a child's health. I would also be concerned about vitamin D.

Claire236, you are misinformed. It's very easy (certainly in this country) to provide vegan children with all the nutrients they need. I have done a heck of a lot of research, I've been vegan for over ten years and am absolutely convinced on the health aspects of it. I have a couple of adult friends who have been vegan all their lives, and they are the picture of health and youthfulness. I have several friends who are raising vegan children and again, they thrive.

lolapoppins, indeed. I am pretty encouraged that there are more and more people understanding the detrimental effects of dairy, and the move away from meat and dairy in the human diet. I've read a lot of articles and books too, not just about the osteoporosis from dairy, but other diseases such as cancer and heart disease - heavily blaming the consumption of meat and dairy. Loving the gladiator fact! Same can be said about certain performance athletes such as Carl Lewis who was vegan during training as he believed in the health aspects of it.

ChippingIn - I didn't mean it was impossible for a child to have a healthy vegan diet but it is easier to provide a healthy diet if meat & dairy products are included. Saying a vegan diet is better isn't true because it's nowhere near that simple. Some vegan diets are undoubtedly more healthy than some diets including meat & dairy where some aren't.

Not sure what it is about parents though. My mum looked after ds1 when I first went back to work after mat leave. I was in Tescos one day & he got all excited having spotted Quavers in the crisp aisle. Having never given him crisps of any description I was a bit bemused. Unfortunately my mother decided that a few Quavers wouldn't hurt & when I asked her told me he'd only had 1/2 a packet (he was about 14 months old) This & several instances like it led to me putting ds1 in nursery which caused another disagreement as my parents thought it was ridiculous that I'd pay nursery fees when I didn't have to.

Well, I did say that it is obviously possible to raise a child as a vegan, and if you do it right then it seems a no-brainer that they'll be more healthy than one raised on ribena and turkey twizzlers. But eating a few dark green vegetables is NOT going to provide all the calcium that a growing child needs, let alone other nutrients. You do need to think through their nutritional requirements pretty carefully - not saying the people above haven't done this, but it seems all too easy to think 'oh I'm eating loads of fruit and veg, therefore my child will be healthy if they eat that too'.
An (adult) vegan friend of mine was shocked a few years ago when she was told she couldn't donate blood because she was severely anaemic as a result of her diet. You can do it right, but there is also the potential to get it very wrong.

And incidentally you can't tell if a child is calcium deficient from seeming 'perfectly healthy at 7' and not having 'bendy bones' - lack of calcium doesn't cause rickets! It might, on the other hand, increase their risk of osteoporosis in later life. And lack of vitamin B12 in a young child is altogether more serious, as a quick glance at pubmed will tell you.

Anyway, all I can say is that I wish I had the luxury of choice in all of this!

Claire236, to me, reading as much as I have about meat and dairy, and from my own personal experiences, I actually don't believe meat and dairy are healthy, so I would definitely have to disagree with your statement that it's easier to provide a healthy diet if meat and dairy are included. On the contrary.

I accept that you can be vegan and solely eat lettuce all day every day, and no, that wouldn't be healthy. But in my book, a healthy and balanced vegan diet is better than any containing meat or dairy.

Anyway, I think I've made that point, so I'll leave it there.

I didn't mean that formula, rusks and ribena would be a better diet - just that the fil's concerns about iron and calcium seemed to be fair enough. Perhaps he (and myself) are just ignorant about a vegan diet, in which case the op should make an effort to explain to him how a vegan diet can satisfy these needs for a toddler.

AbFabT - completely agree. It's nice not being the lone voice for a change

I'm glad WidowWadman posted that link because I agree with it. It does seem a bit obsessional to cut out whole food groups without very good reason and without a dietician's or paediatrician's advice. Perhaps you do have advice from a paediatrician?

libelulle - I was being glib about bendy bones etc. It was just one of the comments I received when ds was a toddler. I never said I was raising my perfectly healthy 7 year old as vegan. We don't eat meat at home (but we do eat lots of fish) and I don't use cows milk or any other dairy products at home (I just prefer rice milk and soya milk, soya margarine). Milk etc isn't banned from my child's diet all together, if he wants milk/cheese/meat when out or given them at a friends house he can have them, it doesn't bother me one bit. Also, he gets calcium at home from more than a few green vegetables. I had a long list printed out of the things he ate that provided calcium as a toddler, from both natrual foods and fortified rice milk and soya products, to recite to family members who thought I was doing him harm by not giving him cows milk and meat everyday at home.

I was just trying to lend the OP and some of the other posters support on the no cows milk issue, as most people think you are bonkers when you say your child doesn't have it.

FWIW, I know a lot of proper vegan families who have pointed me to lots of info on the internet/books about vegan diets. It all makes for some very interesting reading and I can see why they have fully embraced that way of eating.

My two half sisters have osteoporosis (they have inherited it from my stepdad, rather than it being caused by poor diet) now in their early 20's, they both have very poor bone density. It is surprising which foods contain calcium and how much.

OP - just to be aware - I fed dd a truly healthy diet with lots of green veg, lentils, a small amount of chicken and some other meats until she was 19 months old. She then decided that she wasn't going to eat any of it and there has been nothing I can do about it since. This is to the point where she stopped thriving and the dr and hv suggested a variety of things to let her choose from. She chose to eat the things that I wasn't happy with, however if I want her to eat and thrive and grow I feel I have no choice at the moment. So with all the best intentions in the world you can't always dictate what is going to happen.

I am just interested in how if this happens to those of you intending to bring up vegan children, what you would do - would you abandon that desire?

Good luck OP, ultimately it is your choice how you bring up your child and therefore you will have to face criticsm whatever you do as it is likely to be different than someone elses. I think the best thing you can do is just not critique back!

(Also - let your child run free at parties would be my only advice. One friend didn't give any sugar to her dc and they had a small amount on one occasion at a party and went nutso. Post that she introduced small amounts of treats and the "sugar" high has subsided as they have become more tolerant ofit, not saying ideal for everyone but the older they become the more exposed to sugar they become!)

AM concerned with Op's obsessiveness. Agree with Eve about bad and good foods. No food is bad. everything should be eaten. everything. veg. fruit. chocolate. crisps. everything. IN MODERATION. Now THAT is a healthy attitude to food.
I am a diabetic and was denied alot in the first few years - diagnosed at 1.
My love of chocolate and sweets is thus probably stronger than most. because i was denied.
But still I do eat healthily. But I also eat treats. That I don't consider to be treats.
Don't have a problem with the no meat thing. Just want you to consider whether this is really teaching your dd, and aren't dd's more vunerable to all this, is this balanced ?

mind you, neither was i suggesting that you have to keep justifying yourself to gp's re ribena and rusks and chocolate. my ds's drink largely water.
but will also drink anything else given , by me or anyone else. and i never give it a second thought.

The child isn't vegan though, she drinks milk - surely human milk is better for her than animal milk anyway?

And the OP doesn't come across as at all obsessive - she says she knows she won't be able to control her diet forever, but why not when she's a baby?

Children eat too much sugar anyway - giving food with added sugar in it is completely unneccessary. So long as the baby gets plenty of fat she'll be fine.

littlesez Fri 16-Apr-10 07:57:39
sorry littlemrshappy should explain the dairy thing.

1.Me and hubby were both allergic as children so big chance she would be

1. I dont have cows milk because I believe its for cows not humans(other people can do what they like of course none of my business)

Sugar
I do think its the devil thats just my personal opinion

Based on the 3 points above I have to say you sound utterly and totally bonkers. You seem to have major issues with food... lets hope you dd doesnt develop these issues too.

Very sad.

What's bonkers? Do humans need to drink cow milk?

I agree with that last point, Oblomov...I don't deny DCs biscuits or crisps if they want them, but they've never had fizzy drinks or squash (DH and I don't drink them though), and I do cook meals from scratch, and avoid overly processed foods.
My hope is that when they go to parties, they will not only choose the cake and crisps, but also the fruit and veg. I see so many children at birthday parties who have 'healthy' diets at home, just stuffing themselves full of refined sugar and salt like there's no tomorrow. I want my children to just have bits of what they like, and guide them to make healthy, balanced choices.

For the record, I don't think what OP is doing is bonkers, or that a vegan diet is a terrible idea. I'm just not a fan of a diet that restricts food, particularly for children...I think a healthy mindset toward food begins with choice, and the option to try lots of different things. But, I do realise people believe differently...fair enough!

I bow to the superior wisdom of those who know more about vegan diets for me but I do think the no dairy is probably the trigger for your PILS anxieties - perhaps having a professional back up your approach (dietician, HV or GP) would reassure them and take the pressure off you. I think that if you have an otherwise good relationship with them, it's worth avoiding a sceanrio when they feel that they have to sneak her the food things that you consider unhealthy and in later years, that places the child in a dilemma about not telling mummy that grandad gave her cake/crisps/sweeties.

I totally understand wanting your child to have a healthy diet but I do agree with the others about not labelling foods as 'bad' as that can cause food issues later in life. It is possible to strike a very healthy balance - my kids will still only drink water or milk - they'y don't really like the taste of juices but they do have chocolate, biscuits etc in reasonable amounts. You do find that as your child gets older and starts to move into nursery and school settings and the scary world of birthday parties, that you have to absolve absolute control over their diet and IMO that must be easier to do if you adopt a more relaxed approach from the beginning.