to be irritated at parents accompanying their kids on university visits?

[AmberTheHappyLuddite]

Why do parents do this? I've seen dozens of them in the last few weeks, standing on either side of their offspring like a couple of pot dogs... Why are they there? The decision of which university to go to is not theirs, it has nothing to do with them - these are young adults not babies. It seems bizarrely intrusive to me - I visited all of my potential universities independently, including one five hundred miles away. Nor did I consult my parents about where to go, I informed them of my choice. However, this was a few years ago and my parents put a heavy emphasis on independence.

Let your kids do this alone - it has sod all to do with you now.

Sorry, just caught up with this after I posted ages ago.

I am still perplexed why the OP equates going to open days with parents to not be able to look after themselves.

My friends and I used to pay 'spot the boarding school' kid in our first term at university because they were the ones who couldn't look after themselves. They had no idea how to cook, clean, wash their clothes or even organise their study time because it had been all worked out for them at school and yet they were the ones who went to open days alone and were supposedly 'independent'.

I did take my parents to open days as I said, but I lived at home, had been cooking tea for the whole family since I was 11 or 12, did my own ironing and a lot of the family stuff, knew how to work the washing machine, had a Saturday job from the age of 15 and worked in the school holidays as a temp, (and consequently no pocket money - only money I had is what I earnt) and went on twice yearly shopping trips to London with my hard earned cash (in the days when I wore Top Shop, it fitted and Oxford Circus was a the place to go).

Hardly lacking in independence. I don't really think there is any correlation at all.

My brother, who graduated last year, didn't bother visiting his university. He researched the courses he wanted, looked online, picked his first choice (Southampton) and got in. The first time he saw the place was the day he moved there.

I think yoiu can do enough research online tbh. Open days, as nice as they are I suppose, are just the same wanderings around campus. Can't imagine that they are that enlightening.

If dd wants to go on visits in a couple of years I will go with her if she wants, however she is pretty fixed in her mind where she wants to go (Bristol) and what she wants to study, so possible open days would be pointless anyway.

I on't think either option - accompanying your kids or leaving them to do it themselves - is bad. You just do what suits you and your kids.

Btw, I bet the OP is 24. She sounds pretty young and immature in her reasoning.

Open days are fine - we have whole family outingswhere I work - i think its great because it makes us more know in the community as we're so small.

However I do experience some issues with Parents wanting to direct every part of their child's experience studying (module selections , registrations, council tax ) and expecting me to talk to them rather than the student themselves which (even if they do pay for the course) in some cases contravenes Data protection.

Although saying that about 50% of the freshers would turn up with the wrong documentation for registration if the Mums were'nt with them and we appreciate the help that parents give but the student is and adult and we have to treat them as such.
There are some parents that just can't let go though.

Not sure I agree about the pointlessness of Open Days.

It is like buying a house - you could see one on the internet and it looks great and exactly what you want but that doesn't necessarily mean it will feel right when you visit. Nobody would move house without first seeing where you were going which is effectively what you are doing when you go to university, especially, if like me, you go somewhere in a part of the country you have never visited before.

Plus websites aren't going to put the crappy bits on for all to see. Evertything will look bigger and brighter and nicer on a website than it does when you visit it. If you still like it, warts and all (or as much as you can see in an open day) then probably is the place for you.

Dandylioness - I deal with student funding and it's always the parents who come up and ask (if they don't know) how they apply for funding, what else may be available, whether it's easy to get part-time jobs in the area, that sort of thing. Whether the children don't ask simply because their parents do it for them is difficult to assess really. I always direct my answers to the prospective student and try to have a conversation with them, regardless of who has asked the questions.

Unless one of my children is going to study the discipline I work in, I am not sure what use I would be at an open day. If, for example, DS wanted to look around an English literature department, I don't know the first thing about English literature or the areas of it that DS might have an interest in. If as a parent you are going to be more capable of assessing the suitability of a department than your child, then I question your child's suitability for higher education.

There is certainly a problem with some parents at open days. You ask a potential student a question, and the parent answers it. While an open day is not an interview, it can certainly lead to an impression being given by a student that they have something to bring to a department, and I think that is harder for the student to achieve with parents present.

I suppose the happy medium would be for parents to look around the facilities in general but leave speaking to the lecturers to the prospective student. I mean, if your child was applying for a job, would you accompany them into the workplace for a look around?

As for the difficult questions, I would like to know in advance how many teaching hours my child will receive from lecturers with a PhD rather than a range of other staff. I suspect that my questions wouldn't be honestly and accurately answered anyway.

OP, I think it only has sod all to do with us if we are not forking out one single penny to facilitate it, and that includes keeping our child at home for the next three years if they choose to study locally. If we are, then we are entitled to go, and have an opinion.

And in the same way that you might help your eighteen year old choose their first car, or flat, or advise them about the benefits and pitfalls of serious relationships, birth control, starting a family, credit cards, or any other aspects of growing up and being independent, surely you want to help and advise them with university too? It doesn't necessarily mean 'CONTROL', which is what you are implying.

Once your 'child' becomes eighteen and therefore, in theory at least, an adult, should we just wash our hands of them and say - 'Be a man overnight - don't look to me for any help, advice or support with anything, ever again'? Because I'm struggling to see the difference. God knows I'm no helicopter parent (far from it) but I'm not ready to throw him head first into adulthood with no support either.

TiggyR - there is a massive difference between 'never supporting your child with anything ever again' and allowing them to visit a university on their own if that's what they want to do.

I am struggling to believe that you can't see a difference.

Surely if you want your mum or dad (or any other experienced, interested person) to come and give a second opinion, that's a good thing?

RustyBear, I'm not saying that! I would allow my children to visit alone, if they wanted to, though I imagine they'd quite like me to go, if only for the lift! And if I am expected to contribute financially to their future then I expect them to accept that I will probably take more than a passing interest in how they are choosing to spend my money.

My point was that the OP took exception to all parents going, ever, on the basis that their child was now technically an adult and therefore it was 'sod all' to do with them. Like we're insisting on being in the room when they lose their virginity or something! I was just making the point that if we should not be getting involved with this, then why should we be getting involved with anything at all, ever again? After all, they are adults right? Things just aren't that black and white, are they. I don't see how the university thing is any different to all the other things I listed where our kids might benefit from our experience and judgement. Young adults will often need and seek support and second opinions from their parents on all manner of things. Doesn't mean they are useless, or controlled cossetted. Neither does it mean the parents are control freaks.

I think it would be a pretty small minority of parents who would say 'Right Dear, we've decided you'll go there. No discussion necessary' The OP should give students and their parents a bit more credit for discussing, evaluating and comparing the options TOGETHER, and for the parents to respect the young person's wishes.

Maybe twenty years ago more students went alone because they would be in receipt of a full grant and the parents didn't have a vested financial interest? Maybe 20 years ago there were far fewer universites to choose from, and the standard of teaching and courses was generally very high across the board, so parents were less concerned about the whole thing? These days it may take a cynical adult eye to sort the wheat from the chaff, especially if we are expected to cough up for the privilege.

My parents only came to one open day with me, which was completely fine by me as they were rather clueless ("I think you should apply to York. I went there on vacation once. It has a nice castle") and I was desperate to get away. Incidentally, it was the university I went to so it was nice to see the city before I moved there. However, when I did go up, I just waved them goodbye at the train station, and went up on my own. It was awesome.

When I went to Uni in 1978, no one came with me- dad was bombing Germany when he was that age and mum wasn't interested.
My words os advice from dad when I was choosing a uni was - bear in mind if you ever need picking up, the uni has to be within a 2 hour drive- and if I changed my mind about the course, there would be no second chance.
Fair enough- in hindsight I would have liked a little more interest from my parents but that's the way they were.
I have no idea if my dcs will want to go to uni- I would like to think they'd want me and dh to advise them or at least that they would feel they could come to us for help.
I agree with Riven that I think children today are much younger than we were.

am horrified by op
does parenting end on reaching the 18th anniversary of the day you ejected them from your uterus? because that is exactly what you are implying.

completely second what tiggyr has said. but also agree with rusty. its not about control at all. its about taking on board the advice of someone who is older and maturer, and has your best interests at heart.

when i was 20, my df and i went with 16 year old sister to see a potential school for her. df valued my opinions and dsis valued both of our opinions. not because df was paying for it, but because she trusted that we had her best interests at heart, and would be able to give a different pov to her own.

My son went on his own to York and Oxford and I said I would drive him to Warwick but there is no way I would have gone around with him. I did my own uni visits 30+ years ago and could think of no good reason at all to go with DS - it would have been a real embarassment for him too. He chose Oxford as first choice, York as second and didn't get offered a place at Warwick. He goes to Oxford and we are paying - don't think that comes into it at all. When some 18 year olds are fighting for their country in Afghanistan or are parents themselves can't see why they shouldn't be able to chose a university without parental support!

I think it should be up to the prospective student. I was thankful that my parents drove me to my interview day (three hours' drive from home) but then went off to have a look around the city while I sat with others my age and got to know potential course mates.

I think that's a fair balance and there is a little too much hand-holding these days.

Even worse, IMO, are the parents who complain have a tantrum when their darling does not (thanks to low grades or a poor interview or both) get a place at the uni of their choice. I had to just deal with it when I was applying.

With unis so oversubscribed at the moment, a ranty phonecall will only serve to teach the child that if they don't get what they want, they should shout and stamp their feet, rather than focus their energies on getting another place/trying harder the following year.

I don't think that today's 18 year olds are younger than the 18 year olds of a generation ago. I do believe, very strongly, that the array of choices open to young people and the variety of life paths is massively much greater, and that, as a result, young people need much more guidance and discussion about their options than people needed in earlier generations.

"And in the same way that you might help your eighteen year old choose their first car, or flat, or advise them about the benefits and pitfalls of serious relationships, birth control, starting a family, credit cards, or any other aspects of growing up and being independent"

I think that what a lot of us older people are thinking is that we wouldn't have needed our parents for those things, or choosing clothes etc either, because we were more independent. It was different in those days.

By the age of 17/18, we felt we didn't need help. And looking back, I didn't need help, as I could manage quite well and happily myself.

Obviously, when the time comes, I'd go with my DC quite happily if they wanted me to. But I really hope they'd love to go confidently by themselves, as it's such an adventure.

And why should my experience lead me to direct them in the way that is right for them?

But each to their own

"I think it would be a pretty small minority of parents who would say 'Right Dear, we've decided you'll go there. No discussion necessary'"

You'd be surprised

Well, DH and I went to university over 30 years ago and had very different experiences of parental involvement - I went to one interview on my own (actually the first time I'd been on a train on my own!) the other two my parents took me, but only in the 'giving me a lift' sense - I don't remember them actually having any input, though that was probably because neither of them had been to university, were unduly modest about their academic ability & wouldn't have thought they could give any useful advice.

DH's parents, on the other hand (both teachers!) were the worst kind of helicopter parents way before the term was thought of - according to DH they dismissed Warwick at first sight because there were students sitting on the walls

I've never been entirely sure whether they actually chose Exeter for DH and he went along with it, or whether it was simply that their choice coincided with his. Must ask him when he gets home...

DS has just reminded me that he didn't even tell me the first time he visited a university - he went with friends from school during the school day & we didn't know till later.

I asked him "Was it because you thought I wouldn't care, or that I would care too much?" and he said "It wasn't either, it was just that it was something I wanted to do myself"

Both DD & DS organised all their visits themselves & went on their own or with friends - DS tended to sort things out quietly on his own & only ask advice on specific points, whereas DD talked about the whole thing in great detail - but that's just the way they are normally anyway.

Clicked on this thread as couldn't actually believe such a non-argument had generated 14 pages of posts.

OP- I'd really like to be you, if all you have to be bothered about is this.

Gawd help us if you get your teeth into a breastfeeding thread mind.

My Daughter (DD in accordance with MN nomenclature); will go to University; firstly because she wants to, and secondly because I want her to.

She will study a "professional" degree; again for the above reasons.

I will take her to said university for the sake of expeadiency;(sp).
I will also be enrolling at the same university in order to further my education.

As a consequence, I will need to peruse university accomodation; and I'll be booked in the next room for the first year.

I will wear purple; because I already do; and in addition, I will wear lime green and orange and carry a bag in a very student way.

I will write a letter to the university authorities to advise that my Daughter is not allowed to loose her virginity until she is 40 years +; and if she does, it's entirely their responsibility.

I am not un hinged; I am just a parent of an only child, and I have planned in advance. (She's 11yrs old).....

Will I heck as like.

The choice of a university is entirely theirs.
If they have made the "grade" then the choice is theirs alone.

Addicted... and everyone else.

It's the input/feelings of the candidate that matter.

It's got so bloody "Oprah"/ American.

Inclusive/talking about it/ ruminating.

They're 17/18 years old. They have been educated.

Leave them to their own choice.

I haven't had a chance to read the whole thread so apologies for repetition! I work as a university lecturer. I understand why parents want to come, and why students want them there (after all it is a big decision and the parents are likely to be paying for some or all of it). However, I think that prospective students who come alone (or more commonly with a couple of school friends) end up having a better time and getting more out of the open day. The parents tend to dominate conversations and ask most of the questions. Although, at the uni I work at, we try to get round this by having some events specifically for the parents/students.

Another point in favour of coming alone, is that the open day student helpers (who can be a great source of information about what the university is really like) are often inhibited if parents are around.

Just a few thoughts...

I'm the Editor of another parenting site TheBabyWebsite .com and have always been a regular browser of MumsNet but never felt compelled to enter into the various discussions until this one. (I was tempted by BiscuitGate obviously! )

Surely university is the beginning of a person's independent life? How does it benefit a student having mum and dad deciding where they are going to study and live? Yes, advise them on university choices and help with filling in the Ucas forms and chip in with tips where you see fit, but ultimately this is their life and not the parents'. I have a daughter in her second year in Bristol Uni doing Engineering Maths and another in New Zealand at the moment on a Gap Year before going to do Architecture in Manchester University. Most of their choosing and Uni visiting has been theirs and theirs alone although where necessary we've 'given lifts' etc. DD2 organised her Gap Year travel and accommodation with her friend and although they kept both sets of parents in the loop, they ultimately made all the decisions and paid all the bills! (worked their socks off for 6 months after A Levels to pay for it all).

As parents we are there to advise and support all the time but surely there comes a time when we have to step back and let them go off down the road of independence. Yes they might make some mistakes but how will they ever learn to make decisions and cope when things go wrong, if other people always do things for them and pick up the pieces if need be?

(Mum to 3 daughters 20,18 and 17 and step-mum to 2 sons 19 and 16)

oh dear i thought standing back and let my dd's get on with some things would be good for them, I didn't realsie it showed that I didn't care