to be irritated at parents accompanying their kids on university visits?

[AmberTheHappyLuddite]

Why do parents do this? I've seen dozens of them in the last few weeks, standing on either side of their offspring like a couple of pot dogs... Why are they there? The decision of which university to go to is not theirs, it has nothing to do with them - these are young adults not babies. It seems bizarrely intrusive to me - I visited all of my potential universities independently, including one five hundred miles away. Nor did I consult my parents about where to go, I informed them of my choice. However, this was a few years ago and my parents put a heavy emphasis on independence.

Let your kids do this alone - it has sod all to do with you now.

You see a small selection of students who have volunteered as guides; not really a reliable sample! And there's not really a lot of time to talk to them in depth.

And great facilities don't necessarily mean great teaching....

Are they mad? If they take their parents how can they get drunk with the students showing them round?

Riven the vast majority of whole university open days will be after AS levels but there are definitely some subject specific open days going on at the moment. DD2 is going to a maths one in a few weeks.

I can see your point but I also valued my parents' opinion. I took them to look at Universities with me, and also when I was looking around houses to buy as they give good advice.

That said, I work in a Univeristy and am constantly shocked by all the helicopter parenting that goes on. At the slightest sign of trouble mummy is on the phone complaining about this, that and the other and I am frequently depressed by how little iniative and independence the students seem to have.

Bit of a weird thing to get wound up about.
I work at a university and I spend every open day talking and listening to parents and prospective students. On the whole, parents ask better questions than their children and insist on them taking leaflets so they know what to do next - which is helpful from our point of view.
I've also seen staff who will try to fob off young people with vague answers about the availability of accommodation and so on, so in those cases it can be better to have someone a bit more streetwise with you. TBH, not having parents at open days might be easier for me but it wouldn't be as useful (or as interesting). Very few 17 year olds ask me the questions they should be asking before coming to university, and if they did it would reduce the problems they experience once they become students. I do think parents are more interested now because they are likely to be contributing to their child's living costs for longer, and because student funding, increased choice of institutions and courses and so on make it a more complicated process than before.
Yes, YABU.

University open days
University interviews
Post offer open days

I think parents accompanying prospective students to interview is a bit helicopter, they should be able to do this on their own. But accompanying a prospective student at an open day, and trying to help them define what it is they are looking for is probably sensible.

My son's off in September and I did feel the need to see where he's going to be living. But he hasn't yet made up his mind between his three offers. He went to all four of his interviews alone.

There is a confused principal agent problem now. Not least because parents pay for university. It's a huge investment and of course they should satisfy themselves that what they're paying for is of suitable quality.

There have been two posts on this thread from people who involved in organising university open days, which have pointed out the disadvantages of having parents there. The points raised in both of them have been ignored I think. I will certainly discuss these choices with my DC (assuming that they have these decisions to make), but for me anyway, the open days were more for getting a feel for the place - how I personally responded to it and how I thought I might get on there. I did that alone, which I think worked well, and then discussed the more objective things with my parents.

That does sound ridiculous cumbria81 - DD1 is at her first year at university and I can't think of any occasion when I would step in and start her university. I must admit I was more about parents having the password to kids on line bank accounts so they could check up on what they were spending. This seems to be quite common among the boys that DD1 knows.

Ha! Corss posted with someone else involved with open days, who has the opposite opinion. Typical

I went to a post offer open day a couple of weeks ago and there were very very few students in attendance without an accompanying parent.

when you see the state of some of the houses death traps that some of the uni students choose to live in....thats when i realise how glad(and they were so grateful) i was that i went to view some of the accomdation in nottingham. One landlady(if i can call her that) had a house that was a death trap,with electric sockets that werent screwed to the wall in the kitchen, a shower unit that had deliberately been hacksawed in half to get it to fit......with exposed wires. And these teenagers have got so much experience in life (ho hum) Its surprising that none of them got electrocuted. As they have never run a home,bills etc....what suddenley makes them capable of every life decision all within one week. God forbid...some of them still dont know what they want to do when they get to uni. Other than the illegal housing aspects i have totally left DS1 to sort everything out but when no response is obtained from rip off landlady...yes then i interveeened with a threat of legal action. These teenagers are not wordly wise and they need advice and learn from advice and assistance.

I suppose there is a balance to be found between hand holding and spoon feeding.

My experience is quite different I suppose. In 'my' country, you get an offer from a university based on your exam results - there aren't the face to face interviews, and personal applications that seem prevalent in the UK.

If you are accademically bright, you get into the course you want, and that's pretty much it.

My overwhelming feeling as a freshman was one of relief that I was where I wanted to be - out of school and my own autonomous person!

I was pretty independent though at that age - and most of those on my course were independent also: it was a degree in Earth Sciences. Most of us could drive - tractors and the like I got a loan myself and bought a car to do field work. I arranged my own funding / forms etc.

I think for Humanities the competence of students is less than those with more technical vocations, from my own observation. Humanities students seemed to have plenty of time to float around in groups having coffee and picking up each other's hand outs at their three lectures a week that they were too hung over to go to!

There's something about the heavy workload and having to organise your own experiments that gives medical / science / engineering and technical students the edge - and maybe this is one of the reasons why the medical schools are intolerant of Parental involvement (also because they are very much aware with permission forms etc that LEGALLY at 18 you are considered an adult).

There is a lot of responsibility loaded on medical students and interns, and the Uni need to know that their students are mature enough to handle it, without having being spoon fed through the hoops, because you absolutely have to get your act together yourself and fast with a more technical degree!

From my friends' experiences who work in universities, they bewail the lack of independent students - and moan constantly about the helicoptering parenting - I think helicopters parents look on uni as big big school... which misses the point really.

From my own experience of hiring people to work in our business, we always tried to hire scientists, as they were self starters and free thinkers, and had a lot more to contribute.
We had a few business graduates and arts grads as interns and they had to be told to do every blimmin thing, twice, and then shown how to do it! Scientists and engineers are can-do types - and even if they balls it up, they at least have done something

I helicopter parenting does no-one any favours. Ok a bit of support is essential if students are below the legal age for things, but after that I think it's damaging not to let them take responsibility for their own lives.

I think the OP has some valid points, maybe put a little harshly.... maybe not, but I see where she is coming from.

... keen to say that those who don't accompany their children are not "supportive" or "do not care".

Have not knowingly seen any such criticism, so will have to take your word for it.

"to treat their offspring as being mature enough to make this important decision for themselves."

That's all well and good - lots of posters have shown they took the decision for themself, whether or not their parents also went to an open day or several open days. Being able to discuss is part of that decision making, so long as views of parents are not taken as "law". A second opinion, having someone else point out something missed by the young adult, is probably desirable. Good for you that you went off and got into Cambridge, self-confidence as well as academic ability seem to be yours by the shed load, but not everyone is the same, and if you cannot accept that I question you being a fully 'rounded' adult.

"for sure, a 17 year old seems young from a 40-60 year old's perspective, but so does a 24 year old. Surely no-one here would accompany their 24 year old to an important job interview."

Not the same by a long chalk. No, I doubt anyone would expect to accompany them, but there might well be a wish to discuss the pros and cons. Have just spotted some Google advertising for 4 jobs in IT with MI5. Clearly states that one is restricted in who one talks to - limited to close family and partner only.

I would expect any 24yo to make the final decision themself, and probably not to be too swayed by other input, but if that "important" job interview was for a position overseas, or in a security service like MI5, then a bit of discussion with an elder would seem beneficial. You couldn't chat with your mates in the pub about it, after all!

"A healthy adolescent enjoys that independence and a truly caring parent encourages that."

Part of that caring includes taking an interest and being as involved (or not) as the offspring wants. You've surely seen instances where people have posted, saddened that their parents didn't seem to show that care, at the time, though there may well be reasons that were not be explained at the time (pressure at work, health concerns, whatever). You seemed earlier to compare parental involvement with interference, now you push your view that a caring parent let's them get on with it, even if someone is immature and could make some bad decisions. Others feel different - there should be room for all views across the spectrum as this isn't a binary choice.

"if 1 in 10 teenagers viewed with their parents, it would probably be fine. But there is something wrong with a society where the proportion is so high."

In YOUR opinion. Others clearly feel different. Hope you can accept they're actually NOT WRONG and that your view might be shared by around only 50%, and not 90% as you appear to want.

It's a massively and constantly changing society. Technology has changed, attitudes have changed, but many parents (for whatever reasons) have decided to make time to accompany, mostly with agreement, I assume, and hopefully not too many are there for 'control freak' reasons to micromanage what happens.

Riven - I think they are too (more like children), i strongly suspect that it's because we as parents don't allow them to grow up - a lot is media driven, some is because now we are adults we can see how some of what we got up to could have gone horribly wrong and we don't want things to go horribly wrong for our babies!

I think YABU to be irritated by this. Each to their own I would say. Some might want parents there, parents might want a day out/nose around, parents might have given them a lift. When I was looking at which uni to go to I went to some alone and a couple with my mum. I thought the uni grounds were quite pleasant to go for a walk around and so did my mum. We went for a walk and lunch out. Never did she tell me where I should go or get involved with my choice of course. When I was at uni my parents visited every few weeks and we did same kind of thing, went out for meal etc and I would visit them back home every few weeks. They never did my washing/changed my bed/told me how to run my life. It is surely not unusual to involve your parents in your life when you have grown up. So yes I think YABU to be irritated by the fact that parents were there but on the other hand if it was that parents were ordering their dc around like a 4 yr old and telling them 'you must go here/you can't go here' etc then that would be irritating.

Perhaps there has been a shift over time. In my day (dinosaur time) parents didn't get so involved in Uni visiting etc. It was felt that part of Uni life was the fact that you Grew Up while you were there and Got Independence.

Teenagers these days are much more savvy and are fairly grown up by the time they get to sixth form. They don't need to go to Uni to prove their independence and, therefore, are more relaxed about taking the parents with them. They no longer have to prove a point. In fact, as many have said, it is actually more grown up and mature to take advice than to stubbornly insist on standing on your own.

When I was attending university open days about 6 years ago, the university I eventually chose actually had seperate 'sessions' for non-students and students - parents etc were ushered into meetings about notable research work or fees, for example, whilst students attended workshops to get a hands-on feel for their subject in a university setting. Then guided tours of the campus etc would be for whoever wanted to come along.

My parents accompanied me to look at universities (and in several cases, not even on open days - I arranged to visit several during normal hours as I felt it gave a better feel for the place) and am grateful for their input. If they couldn't or wouldn't have come, I'd have brought a sibling or an aunt or a friend. Where do they come on the hierarchy of independence?

It does seem absurd to me getting a second opinion from someone you trust means you are a less independent adult. I'd happily ask my mum for her opinion on a new coat I was thinking of buying, or on potential baby names, or on a new washing machine - why would I not have wanted her opinion on a university when I was 17? Does valuing her opinion make me smothered and dependent?!

I'd say that some of the important things to find out are

• how many contact hours a week would I have, and what sort of teaching would take place in those contact hours?
• how many hours of independent work would I be expected to do a week, and what sort of work would this be?
• how much work am I expected to do during the holidays, and what sort of work would this be?
• if placements are an integral part of the course, are students assigned to placements, or do they need to find their own? what support is available to students during placements?
• what key skills does a student need to do well on this course?
• what support is there for developing skills for the new ways of learning I'll meet at University, such as taking notes in lectures?
• what percentage of books on the reading lists are in the University library? how many copies are there? how many books are students expected to buy? (don't necessarily expect accurate / honest answers on this one )

Actually, what students often want to know is things like 'can we have sex in University-owned accommodation'

I asked my Mum to come with me as a) I wanted her opinion on my choices and wanted that opinion to be educated and b) she could drive me to the unis

In the end I went for the only uni that she didn't come to with me because it was cose to home and I was pressured into it by my boyfriend at the time. I ended up dropping out three months later realising that the course was crud, the lecturers treated us like naughty pre-teens and they weren't actually qualified to teach us! Should've listened to my Mum

I was working in the City when I was nearly 17. My mum did come with me to the agency to help find the job and she came with me to the interviews the next day although didn't obviously sit in the interview themselves.
DS 14 will be going to university in 4 years time and I would have thought we would go with him.
He is already capable of getting on a train by himself and has done so every day since he was 12, He and DD 12 got back from Norfolk by themselves by train.

webwiz: My Mum has my bank details and is able to access my accounts for me! Slightly different situation to uni students but she does have all of my spending details at her finger tips should she want it

This is only because after dropping uni I started seasonal work and centres are usually in the middle of nowhere with no access to bank information; especially difficult if you're trying to convince your student loans company not to sue you and sort out the finances going to them at the same time and the bank needs you to sign things or see you in person

I have 3 student age or just past student age children. I would regard it as a fundamental breach of their human rights to access their bank details but we do have an agreement that I pay for their university costs on the basis they take out no student loans so they graduate debt free. It's partly a matter of how busy you are. My 3 had I think 1 interview between the three of them at one place and all the rest of their offers were just on the UCAS form. They went to see 1 or 2 universities but not all. I've a suspicion my eldest didn't even visit Bristol where she went, in adance but I might be wrong because they would often go to parties with friends at various universities in advance anyway so might have seen the places that way.

The older 2 moved back home after for further studying and that's been very nice actually, having them back as adults and they have consulted me about things - careers etc but I don't interfere.