about vegetarians?

[iwastooearlytobeayummymummy]

Now if you a vegan, respect to you and your choice. You have obviously considered the whole food chain as it works in the UK and set out your stall.

If you don't like the taste and texture of meat, or can't afford it, well, fair enough.

If for religious reasons your diet is a manifestation of your belief, I understand.

But if you don't eat meat because you don't like the idea of eating baby animals,but you continue to use dairy products then I just need to know why? Are you ignorant or just sentimental?

Message withdrawn

agree with piscesmoon. Am not keen on the idea of feral animals being let loose in the countryside.

Interesting to see that there are prominent ecologists and greens who would love nothing better than reintroducing wild animals into the countryside. They're quite happy for them to kill other animals like deer, but they don't seem too bothered about what they might do to humans. I think the next thing that these ecologists will be calling for is the reintroduction of dinosaurs, regenerated from DNA fragments in a Jurassic park type scenario. Let's hope they don't become too influential for all our sakes.

www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/wildlife/4612084/Lynx-should-be-reintroduced-to-Britain-to-cull-deer.html

it's worse than I thought, it's an EU policy called "rewilding", they're really gung-ho and intend to do it. They want to bring back the black rat.

The following Guardian article discusses it and its headline is "Those who argue for the reintroduction of lost species must understand it will devastate a landscape we love".

I think they fully understand what it will mean and that is why they want to do it

www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/jan/04/black-rat-beavers-conservation-rewilding

sorry, rest easy, I've just read the article carefully, the black rat part is only a joke, at least for now that is

Beaver and wolf and eagle owl have recently been reintroduced into some areas of Scotland.
The wolf is held in a massive 'run' surrounded by a 38 mile fence. I hope they eat the estate owner but that is just a personal choice.

I don't think things worked out for the beaver either so they are back in captivity.

The eagle owl has been responsible for the demise of many newly born lambs.

Red deer are an example of wild animals free to roam but they can suffer and die of starvation, disease etc and gamekeepers cull the weakest to let the strongest survive. Many of these creatures are shot for sport so only available to a wealthy few.....

I love the idea of feral flocks of sheep knocking over dustbins and clearing pavements or blocking the M1. Or being chased by a bull in Sainsbury's carpark. It is not going to happen but you know that.

GentlePotter, good news I hope you are right. I just fear that behind some of these people is an anti-human agenda, but from what you are saying it won't spread and become a problem.

I'm sorry if I upset you in any way with my posts op. Aibu can be a bit of a baptism of fire I think, but you've been pretty gracious about it so now I feel a bit ,

Looks like you have started a proper debate anyhow

The irony is that the enormous areas of land used for game hunting is exclusive and blocks a farmer from growing crops for humans.

The wolf experiment has been done by an extremely wealthy playboy as a glorified zoo with a whiff of controversy (it breaks the right to roam law not to mention a real risk to public safety should one of the animals escape).

"The irony is that the enormous areas of land used for game hunting is exclusive and blocks a farmer from growing crops for humans."

that's exactly what I mean, that's why they do it. That is what is behind the green, environmental agenda, and behind cutting subsidies for small farmers.

The CAP policy that the French try to preserve is universally trashed. But the French are only trying to maintain their farmers in business by subsidising them, so that when tough times come round again, at least the French will be self-sufficient in food and will be able to feed their population. Zoning off vast areas of land for the benefit of wolves removes that land from potential human benefit.

Many of Britain's farmers have suffered enormous (financial) losses the past few years as their crops were rejected and 'cheaper' crops imported into the country.
There are no reasons why we (our family) should try and grow grain again this year as we have 120 tons of it sitting in a shed so we have to concentrate on the cattle if we want to survive. It is the old 'up horn, down corn' argument.

We would be happier to continue producing grain but the likes of Hovis fairly dictate the market....

We want to be able to provide for as many people as possible including fresh,biodynamically grown, in season vegetables but we cannot compete with artificially low imported goods from the large supermarkets.

I agree that the French, (Danish and Canadians too) have a very fair and sensible view of farming but the politicians in this country tend to treat us in a similar vein as Margaret Thatcher treated the miners in the 80's.

with you 100% GentleOtter, it is a scandal, they want big agri-business to wipe out independent farmers. Eventually there'll be nothing but GM crops left for us to eat, and we'll are get ill. We learnt the lesson about the importance of self-sufficiency in food production when we were weeks away from starvation in the WWI German blockade of the country. Now it has all been forgotten, subsidies have been removed and as we saw with the milk protests, it is becoming uneconomic to stay in business. Food production is vital for the nation and should be adequately subsidised.

I have been pondering these domestic farm animals let loose in the wild. Firstly I fail to see what they are to eat-if the farmer is getting rid of them he will turn over the land to growing crops and won't want wild sheep and cows eating them. They don't get enough grass in the winter anyway-who is to provide food? I can see them turning up in towns on people's lawns and parks. What happens when they die? Do we walk past dead sheep on the pavements and pretend they don't exist? What about the health hazard? I doubt whether our native scavengers e.g. magpies could cope-it would need vultures and hyenas!
Early man had the sensible idea-instead of following the herds and hunting they kept their own and stayed in one place, grew crops and managed food in the winter. I can't see that this was wrong and that suddenly we need to set them free.
Humans are fighting for the right to go to Switzerland to die and yet the poor sheep has to wander the land, starving and diseased because people see them as skipping sweet lambs and don't want to eat them!
The nicest lamb I ever ate was called Fred! He had been hand reared, but he was a menace when older. He was large and heavy and an escape artist who had no fear of humans. He could have got out and jumped up and crushed a toddler-the best option was to send him to the butchers. Herds of 'Freds' roaming the countryside is unworkable.

At the moment-if I am out and about and I see farm animals on the road I go to the farm and let them know before an accident happens, if I see a dead animal I tell the farmer and if I see an injured animal I tell the farmer. If these animals are wild there is no one responsible for any of it.

Piscesmoon.. Finally someone who gets it! The let them back into the wild theory, is why we now have mink roaming the country causing mayhem, and I have seen this first hand! Every action must be thought through properly! It's the butterfly effect. One thing leads to a thousand others! Yes they are living breathing animals. But being an animal lover doesn't mean much if you just abandon them. Those people who say they wouldn't mind feral cows and pigs roaming about, have never been attacked by one! Being ripped to shreds by an angry boar with six inch tusks and a bad attitude is considerably worse than being mauled by a border collie! Your three year old wouldn't stand a chance!
It's very naive! Believe me there are many things in life I'd like to opt out of, comercialism, political issues, the rat race, but We can't just say that's it, I'm not doing that anymore, there are always repercussions. I heartily wish for better animal welfare, but just stopping farming and letting all the animals go is not better welfare, its neglect. You wouldn't condone doing
it to a dog, so why a cow?

People who are sentimental about animals are actually cruel. I think you have summed it up by saying that you wouldn't turn a dog out so why a cow? People may not like the fact that we domesticated animals thousands of years ago, but you can't turn back the clock. It is very unfortunate that many people never set foot on a working farm-or not behind the scenes anyway- and have no idea. Looking after animals takes a lot of time and money. People really ought to note the difference between a healthy cow in a UK field and a scraggy, undernourished cow in India. I think that the farmed one has a much better quality of life than the one that is 'free'. Humans want quality of life above all-they want to die if they have no quality of life-why are cows different?