about vegetarians?

[iwastooearlytobeayummymummy]

Now if you a vegan, respect to you and your choice. You have obviously considered the whole food chain as it works in the UK and set out your stall.

If you don't like the taste and texture of meat, or can't afford it, well, fair enough.

If for religious reasons your diet is a manifestation of your belief, I understand.

But if you don't eat meat because you don't like the idea of eating baby animals,but you continue to use dairy products then I just need to know why? Are you ignorant or just sentimental?

Oooh OP you're so controversial

I am a vegetarian that consumes dairy. Like AnnieL vegan is just too hard for me but I do the best I can. I don't wear leather, check sweets for gelatin and I do have guilt about the eggs and milk when I put them in my shopping trolly.

Couldn't really give a rats arse what you or others think/do tbh. I do what I can and that's enough for me.

i'ma meat eater and a sentimental hypocrite. i like baby animals. i hate the thought of eating animals. i could no way kill anything myself in order to eat it. i know about milk production, beef farming, palm oil, rainforests, methane production, air miles, environmental destruction, bowel cancer, and heart disease.

but i can still pick up a pack of bacon or chicken and happily eat it.

I don't agree that my view is rude , but it does seem to have touched a raw nerve with many here.

If as some posters have said they feel guilty about eating dairy, then why not compromise and eat veal?

At least your daily pinta won't have been produced in vain.

As a beef and egg producer and a vegetarian, may I point out to the OP that calves are not all fattened up for veal, they are castrated and then fattened up for minimum thirty months. This is the government guideline.

If a bull calf is a particularly fine specimen then he would not be castrated but kept for breeding.
Our hens are well looked after and free range - non layers are not killed. Cockerels are but eaten by the rest of my family.

It is a free world of choice and people can eat what they like if they can afford a choice; most of us in this country are fortunate to have that choice. Animals in the UK are raised to very strict rules and farmers take great pride and care in their stock as it is their main source of income and they supply the demand.

Cheese is no longer made from animal rennet so the choice is up to the individual.
Egg laying is what hens do.

OP I don't think you have been rude. I think you are trying very hard to be edgy/controversial/topical. For some reason I get the feeling you watched a lot of Ben Elton when younger.

Hi Gentle

I do understand the farming process as a farmer's daughter, grand daughter, sister and niece.

Part of my problem with this issue is the widely held view that all meat production is bad, with animals raised in factory conditions by uncaring unprofesssional unskilled workers.

I also despair at the demise of local small scale abbatoirs, but that is for another day.

my point about veal is that it seems such a shame that the vast majority of male calves go to waste, and that veal is of itself delicious and very difficult to buy in the UK

Hi Gibbon
I don't thinks it Ben Elton, but it may be PMS

I have absolutely no problem with adults deciding to be vegan, vegetarian or otherwise but it does annoy me when they impose these dietary restrictions on their growing children having received the nutritional benefits of meat themselves as children.

Many farms take part in an open farm day scheme where the public can see the conditions for themselves.
As you will know, each animal, whether bovine, sheep, pigs or goats are tagged so traceability is 100% certain. You ought to be able to ask a good butcher which farm your meat has come from.
The stamp on an egg will tell you the source and date of production and each place given a stamp must adhere to DEFRA rules.

Veal production only exists because there is a demand for it whether people like it or not.
The animal would not be wasted as the hide would be processed for leather and the rest of the animal sent for dog food or the like.

The cost of veal is so expensive that it keeps veal farms to a minimum.

Gentle,

Just out of interest what happens to your non layers? And are your eggs for personal use or are you a supplier?

My auntie used to keep free range under contract, but pulled out as the yield was too low and she could never get the bu**ers to leave the comfort of their housing!

They just refused to range and stayed in playing computer games and eating.( just like my DS actually)

Non layers wander about in retirement and usually become pets.

We can sell from the farm gate but we give a lot away to friends or people doing a large baking for community events.

OP, you clearly have touched a nerve but perhaps not in the way you think. I am a vegetarian and I eat dairy, in fact, I really love dairy produce. My DD is a veggie and my husband eats meat. We have organic vegetables (from a local supplier), buy organic meat and try to shop locally (no, not just the nearest Sainsburys).

What I find very annoying about opinions like yours is that you expect us dairy eating veggies to justify our decisions. Well, who made you judge and jury? I do not have to justify the decisions I make regarding what I eat, just as people who choose to eat meat do not have to justify their decisions. I'm not an evangelical vegetarian and in fact happily cook meat for my husband and dinner guests. I simply choose to not eat it myself.

If someone is whinging on about poor baby animals and wolfing down a lamb roast, well then, you have a point. Otherwise, I'll thank you to not be so judgemental.

I was a vegetarian from the age of 11 because I just didn't like meat at all and my mum rarely cooked it. I started eating fish again at college because the cafeteria's idea of vegetarian was fried burgers containing peppers, carrots and chopped green beans with the consistency of an inner sole [boke]. I only buy pole and line caught tuna as the big companies (John West, Princes etc) use massive industrial trawlers which pull up everything from turtles to sharks, most of which die. And they will not fit the nets which would allow the younger fish to escape and mature. Considering the amount of tuna we used to get through before I swapped, it's a huge step down in consumption!
My Dh is a big carnivore but we have a local small farm which raises and sells Old Spot pork and Aberdeen Angus beef, and he buys from them. For eggs I usually buy Nature's Nest woodland eggs (they are very tasty) but Morrisons have stopped selling them!
I do think that your average vegetarian will be more clued up on their choices than you think.

I am probably the least judgemental person you could meet,

But I am genuinely curious about this issue I'm not asking for a justification, rather an explanation as to why people are dairy eating veggies if their motivation is to prevent animal consumption.

As I have said all along this is not a question for religious/cost/taste veggies.

It does not harm an animal if you are eating dairy produce. The only distress a milk cow would suffer is if she was not milked.

Lamb is almost technically hogget as they have to reach a certain weight and age before slaughter and are very like small fat sheep. No one seems to want mutton anymore hence the demand for lamb.

Cheese etc is a valuable source of calcium for vegetarians and is rarely produced from stomach rennet.

Hi gentle

But for a cow to lactate it must calve, yearly

If the calf is a bull one it will most likely
not make past the first few days of life, unless raised on a mixed farm or a cross breed sutable for beef.

But I don't need to tell you that, as you make your living from farming.

DS (2) is dairy and soya allergic, but what's so interesting is that more recently, he is refusing meat, mainly beef. He is fine with fish and chicken, but for some reason, just doesn't like beef.

Makes me wonder if we didn't give children meat at an early age, whether they would choose it for themselves? I don't know.

Gentle, not all farms that breed cattle are also raise them for beef do they? So on dairy farms there are many calves being slaughtered. Similarly with the hens, you obviously do small-scale egg production, but larger egg-producers do have to dispose of their layers when they are a year old.
(Many of which go to pet food, baby food, pies and similar products. Chickens raised only to eat are killed much younger.).
I'm not a vegetarian by the way, I do eat meat, dairy, eggs etc. I think all I can do about that is my best, which is to pay more for eggs and meat so that I know the source. I still buy milk in supermarkets though.

Foxy D, for what it's worth, I am now 28 and have never eaten meat or fish as my parents were veggie before I was born and raised both myself and my brother as vegetarians.
I am perfectly healthy as is my brother. Neither of us feel that it was 'imposed' on us in a negative sense and neither of us have gone on to eat meat or fish (despite being given the freedom to do so by our parents).
I am now 34 weeks pg and am intending on raising my baby as a vegetarian (my DP eats meat but he is also happy with our decision) because I know that I will be able to provide a healty balanced diet.
OP - I eat dairy, am aware of what the dairy industry entails and do feel guilty about eating dairy but as someone else said I am not perfect and I am happy knowing that I and my family are going some way in not supporting the trade in mass produced cheap unethically produced meat (even if it is not enough in your opinion).
I would personally rather do something small than nothing at all and no I'm not perfect but nor do I judge other people for eating meat. I never discuss my eating habits with other people unless specifically asked (or feel baited to do so!!) and I find attitudes like yours the most irritating to deal with.

Hi Blonde

"I and my family are going some way in not supporting the trade in mass produced cheap unethically produced meat "

So why not just eat meat that is traceable and ethically produced?

If you don't want to eat meat because it involves the death if an animal then is it not hypocritical to eat dairy?

sorry going round in circles here,and no veggies have answered this question directly.

Rather people keep ducking the issue and playing the 'well nobody is perfect card and you as the OP shouldn't be challenging me on this '

BTW best wishes with the new baby

I find it difficult to be concerned about the welfare of animals when I eat them.

It takes the edge off the sincerity of wanting the animal to have a happy life when you're prepared to put it in a sandwich and eat it.

Am a meat eater, BTW.

op - instead of just donating to Macmillan, why not train as a specialist nurse? We do what we can.