to be cross with my elderly fil about the meaning of easter

[nickschick]

Bit tongue in cheek really.

FIL was today bemoaning the fact that he couldnt go to tesco for his cigar supply as they were shut for Easter.

Its only Easter he said they could have had usual Sunday hours ,its not like Christmas or anything.....

ONLY EASTER?????? i SHOUTED - JESUS DIED ON A CROSS FOR US!!!! EASTER IS MORE SPECIAL THAN CHRISTMAS - YES EASTER IS IMPORTANT.

and that sais dh is why you should never discuss religion with a catholic especially not one who sat in a cold church for an hour and a half last night at the easter vigil.

By 'unqualified' I meant an opinion not qualified by the phrase 'in my opinion'. What you think about religion is your opinion.

I see nothing objectionable in Claig's post that you quote. To judge from your comment about it, I suspect you have only a passing acquaintance with any of the tenets of Christianity (any variety), possibly of any other religion either, not to mention, as I gather from your observations about British culture and history, the basic facts of the history of your own country.

It is a fact that a man named Jesus died on a cross. The Romans kept records. And the fact is that the writings about him do state that he died so that sins might be forgiven. Are you trying to reinterpret the New Testament? Are you really arguing that the Gospels do not state that Jesus died for the forgiveness of sins? You have a right to take issue with the idea that Jesus died for this particular reason, or that he rose from the dead. But what is written about him is widely accepted as being reasonably contemporary, and reasonably accurate historically (dates, etc). The writings are a fact.

I referred to 'fairy tales' as mocking. Which I find offensive, yes. Should I not find the mocking of my beliefs offensive? Is it acceptable to mock my beliefs? I don't consider it persecution, btw, nor am I 'whining' about being persecuted as you imply. There's a big difference between finding something offensive and feeling one is being persecuted. I perceive an element of a persecution complex in many of the more heated anti-religion posts on this thread, though.

Really, nobody likes their national anthem, except maybe the French and the Canadians (of whom I have always been envious), but 'hideous'? I'm a dyed in the wool republican (being Irish), but cheerfully stand for God Save The Queen, as a mark of respect for a head of state, as a mark of respect for another state and its people, as a mark of respect for the many hundreds of thousands of British servicemen who gave their lives in past wars under the Union Jack and for the sake of King or Queen and country. To do otherwise would be churlish, imo.

I have read this now, and I wrote something a bit arse about face at the beginning. Was tired and didn't get my point across properly at all.

But I would question one thing.

If someone pisses me off, and I kill them. Why would I be wrong. If it's all supernatural, then what would be wrong with me simply killing someone who had upset me?

Is that yet another roundabout way of saying if you don't have religion you're all amoral?

OMG NEVER has a thread of mine lasted this long before .....will this go down in the mumsnet annuls??? like the bobble plate and the moldie saga.

*MrsCrafty( I can safely say I have no idea what you are talking about, and even less idea why it's relevant

in this country Eostre's festival was celbrated. Passover was celbrated in the East. When Xanity came to the UK, they co-opted Easter. Therefore, in this country, the root festival, is that of Eostre, not that of the Hebrews, because hat weren't that many Henbrews in the UK in 500AD and before (there would have been some oriental traders, but no many).

I agree with mathanxiety as always. Except I like the Star Spangled Banner.

I'm a Christian but wouldn't (and am not) upset when stores are open on Easter. If an employer told me that I had to work on Easter I'd be irritated, though.

And yes, we get that it has it's roots in Pagan celebration. I teach DS we celebrate the new life of Spring, with eggs, rabbits, etc, and of course the new life of Jesus. We celebrate nature, which we believe is a creation of God.

How to calculate the date of Easter. The link to Passover is clear. The two feasts (Easter and Passover) are inextricably linked. From a theological pov, Easter makes no sense without Passover.

They may be linked from a judeo-christian standpoint, but as pp said the pagan festival predates the christian easter in this country.

As an athiest AND a Scottish person I find the national anthem (ahem, sorry English national anthem) more insulting as a Scottish person than an athiest.

If it makes a difference to anyone I have lived here since I was born and my parents and grandparents before me. None of us have EVER had any religion as far as I am aware (we are very lucky).

Can we stop mentioning the national anthem because every time we do I get Eddie Izzard singing about attacking the queen and sending "big dogs after her, to bite her bum"

lol @ Kaloki!!!!! Lurve Eddie Izzard "Fuck off, I'm the Queen!"

Anyway... the "National Anthem" goes...

Lord, grant that Marshal Wade,
May by thy mighty aid,
Victory bring.
May he sedition hush,
and like a torrent rush,
Rebellious Scots to crush,
God save the King

So.. a tad insulted...

So what's yer point, runnybottom? There were probably as many pagan festivals as there were little bedraggled settlements all over the prehistoric world. Your birthday may well happen on a former pagan festival, but does that have any significance? The Queen's birthday (real or official) may fall on one, and does that have any significance?

you think it's a coincidence math? Seriously? Or are you trying to wilfully deceive yourself?

Its a little more than coincidence, when pretty much every outward symbol of Easter is based on the pagan and not the christian festival!
Easter eggs...pagan
easter bunnies...pagan
lambs and chicks and all...pagan. Do we give each other chocolate crosses? No.

I do believe you are taking the piss now.

Kaloki, sorry I didn't answer. Life got in the way.

The reason I ask this is that I would imagine that all people on here think that killing another person is wrong?

Why, who said that life was sacred? Why are certain actions seen as evil?

I believe it is because of religion. So even if people are not religious and don't believe in God, most people agree with some of the stuff that is set in stone.

I don't suppose the cavemen gave a slippery cock when they conked someone over the head and killed them because they had just nicked their dinosaur leg. I would imagine that there were no rules then. The weakest die and that's that. A bit like the animal world. Without some sort of organisation, we would all revert to this.

I think that religion came about to keep the masses under control. To let people have a set of rules that would keep them reasonably civilised.

That said, I don't think it's a bad thing for people to be worried about something awful happening to them if they don't comply with the rules.

Sadly, lots of people leave it up to other people to decide the rules today and as we are only human, that can't work as no one is truly worried about their actions.

Religion, whatever you believe in, is usually filled with ways to live a good & meaningful life.

My point is that I am glad that the UK still observes these days. They are the very basic tenets of how the UK became the civilised country it used to be is.

IMO we don't kill because it is morally wrong, and religion isn't the safeguard of morals. People know it is wrong.

What I am always aware of is that all religious texts were written by humans, nod god/deity reached a hand out form heaven/wherever and wrote them. So as far as I'm aware the "rules" were written by humans, and show that morals are an implicit part of humanity.

mathanxiety
i posted earlier asking how anyone could agree with Faddle's statement saying that Jesus died on the cross for our sins was fact.

how is that a fact?
dying on the cross i COULD believe.

but you cant say 'he died so our sins are forgiven'
because thats not a fact, thats part of faith.

But Kaloki, why is it wrong. The animal world doesn't see killing as wrong? Are we not mere animals?

I don't believe there are morals in the animal kingdom, it's all a matter of life & death.

Nobody knows whether God gave Moses the heads up on the mountain as it can't be proven nor disproven so that would be up to you whether you believe it or not. You don't, that's your perogative. Thankfully you live in a country where you can denounce God.

Right with you on this one nickschick. Easter is special because of the sacrifice and people should respect that.

Mind you, they should also respect the true meaning of Christmas too and not just use it as an excuse to over-eat, over-drink and over-spend.

Maybe if people had more respect for the true meanings AND paid attention to all the important bits inbetween (see The Bible for details ) then this country wouldn't be going to hell in a handcart!

MrsCrafty
your point about the animal world not seeing killing as wrong.
its so brilliant and obvious i feel like quoting it on the coeliac thread re: vegetarianism. what an interesting point actually....

I work at a large retail store and the Christians I work with are usually the first to want to work a Sunday as they like the double pay! move the goalposts or what!

GoldenSnitch, I like your post about how you find belief hard to understand and agree completely. It's a shame more people didn't read what you actually said of course.

mathanxiety, I do think the celebration of easter by the giving of eggs etc is a bit of a giveaway. By any chance are you claiming that christmas was originally christian too?

As for the idea that religion taught that killing was wrong you could really only make that claim for christianity (which is a relative newcomer anyway) since the OT has lots about killing everyone who gets in the way of god's favorite people. It was more like "don't kill anyone who is on our side"

"they should also respect the true meaning of Christmas too".

BranflakeGirl Look up Saturnalia. The christians decided to celebrate christ's birthday and added it to a day we already used for eating, drinking and making merry.

As I'm always saying feel free to celebrate your religious festival on the same day as ours, but please don't claim ownership of it as we were here first.

I couldn't possibly claim to know how we came to 'killing is wrong'. I would suggest that it came around from someone organising us to say, hey, that's wrong.

Why, I don't know?