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AIBU?

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Original poster

to be cross with my elderly fil about the meaning of easter

585 replies

nickschick · 04/04/2010 21:18

Bit tongue in cheek really.

FIL was today bemoaning the fact that he couldnt go to tesco for his cigar supply as they were shut for Easter.

Its only Easter he said they could have had usual Sunday hours ,its not like Christmas or anything.....

ONLY EASTER?????? i SHOUTED - JESUS DIED ON A CROSS FOR US!!!! EASTER IS MORE SPECIAL THAN CHRISTMAS - YES EASTER IS IMPORTANT.

and that sais dh is why you should never discuss religion with a catholic especially not one who sat in a cold church for an hour and a half last night at the easter vigil.

OP posts:
BelleDameSansMerci · 05/04/2010 15:52

Kaloki I was really disappointed with Buddhism (I bet they're devastated ). I read The Teachings of Buddha as I thought it might be "the one for me" but there was a question somewhere about whether a woman shold be man's equsl, his helper or something else (sorry, it was a long time ago). I assumed the answer would be that woman is man's equal but it was that she should be his helper. Sorry for not quoting directly etc but can't find reference on Google and by the time I've found it in the actual book, this thread will be another 14 pages long!

claig · 05/04/2010 15:54

BelleDameSansMerci, you are right that it is Christ's message and not the Church that is the really good message. There were many Christians who did not believe that Christ was the son of God. They were the Arians and they had huge influence. Many of the Germanic tribes who converted to Christianity were Arians. It was only later that Arianism became a heretical movement.

Kaloki · 05/04/2010 15:54

belledame That's such a pity, was planning on reading that (probably still will) There's a few Buddhist beliefs that overlap with mine.

Kaloki · 05/04/2010 15:57

I'd never heard of that Claig I assumed all Christianity was based on the belief that Christ was the son of God. Shall have to read more on that.

claig · 05/04/2010 16:04

the Arians are fascinating, even certain emperors were Arian. The Vandals were all Arians and most of the Germanic tribes such as the Lombards were Arians. I think the Franks were the only Germanic tribe that were not Arians. There is much thinking that many of the Arian Christian ideas ended up in Islam, where Christ is a revered prophet but is not the Son of God.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arianism

BelleDameSansMerci · 05/04/2010 16:04

Kaloki while I was searching for the quote on Google, I did find some interesting stuff regarding the role of women in Buddhism and I think they're moving on. Because I couldn't find the point I was looking for, I didn't read this fully but it may be of interest even though it does date from 1988.

Kaloki · 05/04/2010 16:08

Ooh thankyou both of you Always love learning about other's religions. Even if I don't agree with them

BelleDameSansMerci · 05/04/2010 16:09

Oh claig, my views are so at odds with yours that I loathe to admit that you've just pointed me at something really interesting re Arians (and the important distinction that they are nothing to do with Hitler et al).

Rats! I hate it when someone I'm determined not to agree with is interesting. Please stop it immediately.

claig · 05/04/2010 16:16

our views would probably turn out not to be so different after all

shockers · 05/04/2010 16:31

"Just suppose, just suppose, just suppose I juxtapose with yoooooou"

Bit off key... sorry.

BelleDameSansMerci · 05/04/2010 16:43

shockers I'll name that tune in... Erm. Er. Er?

abitpearshaped · 05/04/2010 16:49

can we talk about something less controversial and inflammatory? Steiner schools, anyone?

BelleDameSansMerci · 05/04/2010 17:02

LOL!

I'd never heard of Steiner 'til I came on here. My DD goes to Montessori - that seems to get a similar amount of flak!!

Shall we do formula vs breastfeeding?

abitpearshaped · 05/04/2010 17:04

I've always wondered who would win in a fight between Joseph Steiner and Maria Montessori.

shockers · 05/04/2010 17:09

Super Furry Animals

shockers · 05/04/2010 17:11

The tune... although they would probably win a fight too... if they had sharp claws and teeth that is. Old animals might not win.

onagar · 05/04/2010 18:17

Shockers I went back to reread claigs post and perhaps I did miss something.

It now sounds like Claig is admitting that the church is anti women, but that they graciously stood back and allowed equality to develop and for that tolerance we should be grateful.

My response to that would not be gratitude for them graciously not putting a stop to the development of equality, but rather to wonder how far equality might have got now if they hadn't been in the way at all.

claig · 05/04/2010 18:37

no I think it is women, who were influenced by Christian values, who changed things in spite of what the Church itself said. In the same way that it was William Wilberforce, influenced by his personal Christian faith, who was a driving force in abolishing slavery, in spite of what any church leaders had to say.
I think the Christian ethos of love, mercy, charity, justice, equality and forgiveness is woven into the fabric of our thought and that is why it is our societies that have been pioneers in human rights.

Kaloki · 05/04/2010 18:47

"who were influenced by Christian values"

Rather than just moral values right? Because only Christians have them? This is where your argument causes offence.

onagar · 05/04/2010 18:49

You should frame that Claig. it's a masterpiece

"The Christian ethos of love, mercy, charity, justice, equality and forgiveness is woven into the fabric of our thought"

Err but not into the thought of the christian churches which we've established were corrupt and sexist and not into the bible I might add.

Were not any of those in the church christians? if so then according to you they should have had love, mercy, charity, justice, equality and forgiveness woven into the fabric of their thought.

Or getting back to reality the church did its best and is still doing its best to prevent society moving forward and treating all its members equally. Despite that women and gay people are getting equality, but it would have been quicker had we just dealt with the church a century or two ago. religion is like having a heavy rock chained to your ankle.

BritFish · 05/04/2010 18:58

im sorry, ive skipped from page 4 to 15, so im sorry if this has been answered, but

Faddle
Fact - according to the writings about him, he suffered this so that our sins may be forgiven. This is generally accepted as historical fact, whether you believe the writings about him or not is entirely your own choice.

okay, personally, i dont believe in any of it, but everyone is entitled to their choice of course, and entitled to say what they damn well like, you're allowed to say its fact, and we're allowed to say its twaddle.
equally offensive to one another i reckon!

but 'he suffered this so that our sins may be forgiven'
im obviously being really ignorant about christianity here, because i dont get how jesus dying so that im forgiven for having erotic thoughts can be a historically proven fact, thats the part you have to BELIEVE right?
im missing something here aren't i!

claig · 05/04/2010 18:59

Kaloki, I am not saying that a Christian today has more moral values than you today. China contains billions of people with moral values, but they historically did not develop the same human rights that we have. I think it was due to the culture that influenced our thought, and the thoughts that you think now do not come from a vacuum, they have been formed to a great extent by our shared Christian values.

To take an example. There is a trend nowadays that tries to push for alcoholics not to be given liver transplants, and smokers to receive restricted hospital treatment, and very obese people not to be given medical help, because the argument is that it is their fault for being that way. This is being pushed by certain newspapers and more and more you hear people on phone-in shows saying yes it serves them right. There was a huge media spiel about George Best not deserving a liver transplant etc. I think that as the country continues to lose its Christian values, more and more people will be shouting that it serves them right because that Christian fabric of charity and love will be weakened. Our Christian values inform our thinking and shape our morals, and we are influenced by the rest of society even if we are not Christians.

Kaloki · 05/04/2010 19:07

claig Why do good morals have to be seen as a Christian thing? Why not just a human thing? The only common thread between all acts of human kindness is humanity. Not Christianity.

Yes Christians have done good things, as have all other religions (or non religious), they have also done bad things (ditto the above). That's just the way it works. All these wonderful values and changes to society can be attributed to people and society, not necessarily to religion.

claig · 05/04/2010 19:15

they don't have to be a Christian thing. However, historically in our countries we have had Christian morality and this has influenced our entire moral thought. We don't stone people to death as they do in some countries, where their moral thought is based on other religions. If you read Christ's teachings in the New Testament you will see that that is some of the wisest highest moral thinking possible. No Druid documents or Egyptian myths contain anywhere near the height of that moral thought. We are lucky to have been influenced by that thought, many people on earth have not had the luck to be influenced by it, and their moral code may include things like an eye for an eye, whereas our code says turn the other cheek.

I don't think there is much difference between people the world over, but there is a great difference between philosophies, religions and values and all of these values influence people and form societies.

onagar · 05/04/2010 19:28

The stoning people/eye for a eye thing mostly came from the old testament which many religions share even if they branched off later. At best you could say that jesus said "don't do what my dad taught you to do cos it's vile and despicable"

Had they not invented god in the first place...

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