To wonder why people get so outraged by other's choices?

[Mooncupflowethover]

Talking mainly about elective caesareans/vaginal births here.

Why do people care SO much about what choice a woman makes regarding how she gives birth. I have read so many heated discussions on MN about this. Why do people get so aerated about it?

As far as I'm concerned, someone wants a VB, fine. Someone wants an ELC, fine. Why are so many people bothered about how someone else gives birth?? I'd understand if they were talking about their own birth choices!!

Anyway, that's my thought for the day

I doubt I'm BU!

Carmen I would disagree that if you are planning an ELCS it isn't worth undertaking any childbirth preparation.

I have an ELCS booked for 39 weeks, but know that I may go into labour prior to my ELCS date.

I'm refreshing my previous knowledge about labour and birth as well as preparing for the aftermath of a c-section as I may need both/either. I feel that this preparation is perhaps missing from most birth planning and antenatal classes.

As the csections.org website says, with around a quarter of births being CS (many EMCS), all women should look into both possibilities. I also agree with other posters that instrumental interventions should be more openly discussed along with the risks they pose.

I'm having my ELCS because of a previous fourth degree tear - I feel that I always need to mention this otherwise I'm being judged. ELCS aren't handed out willy-nilly, you need a good reason to request one and for one to be agreed. I think that people sometimes forget that.

Birth is about choices - we should support whatever informed choices each mother decides upon. It's not up to anyone else to question or judge it.

I was born by emergency C section my mum had the most horrific time. I always hoped not to ever have to have one, both me boys were born VB, I had to have stitches with one of the births, but give me that any day over surgery.

That said I feel it is up to the indevidual to decide what is best for them.

RunawayWife, thats exactly it isn't it, we are influenced by stories and experiences told to us by mums, sisters etc and of course what we have seen with our own eyes.

If i had seen my mums give birth without her complications i probably would of gone on to do it Vaginaly aswell ( if i hadn't had my medical problems ) but that wasnt' the case.

I feel lucky to of dodged the horror my mum suffered with her last 3 births.

I could start that adhesion thread if you like blueshoes - the trouble is that most people dont even know what they are and so couldnt link the symptoms they have to them iyswim - if you started asking about this symptom and that symptom then people would probably agree.

Anyhow - there are things that can be done - and indeed are done in the States and elsewhere to lessen adhesions from cs in the first place but they arent done here because of cost or knowledge or time. Very frustrating.

I think what people decide is very influencd by the culture they live in - and the advice of the health professionals around them. in the States 85% of women choose to have epidurals - there is also a higher peri-natal mortality rate than Boznia Herzegovina. In the Netherlands 50% are homebirths - and they have the best long and short term outcomes in Europe. I know which birthing culture i prefer, and i don't think it is judgy to say i consider the Netherlands to be doing something 'right', and the States something 'wrong'. Therefore when discussing this on the internet, it is important to remember that although it is annoying to be ignored, you should also be careful in case people are being influenced by what you say. We create our own culture here on Mumsnet.

if we are to move to more annoying things on birth threads - the phrase 'no medals for..' is intensely annoying.

the last medal i got was for getting my bronze swimming certificate, does that mean everything since then has not been worthwhile, nor worthy of discussion?

also 'the important thing is you get a live baby' - i think it is also important that you emerge with a minimum of trauma, without having been brutally treated by medical staff...this phrase is so dismissive not only of those who have really good births and count that moment as the happiest of their lives as it leaves them on a high, but also of those who have truly awful ones...

I think I deserve more of a medal for getting through my gigantic DD's forceps delivery and coming out the other side than my friend did for her 6 hour, two pushes labour so please if medals are being handed out then me before her!

OTTmum, choosing cs is probably the right decision for you.

If the reason your mother had bad births is genetic eg unstretchy perineum, then there is the possibility you might suffer from the same condition.

omnishambles, I would not mind if you started the cs adhesions thread.

I am curious because mn is incredibly dominated by botched vb stories.

I don't understand your view about the symptoms. Why shouldn't women draw a connection between symptoms of adhesions and their cs, if you describe them?

Oh because a lot of the low level symptoms - not mine but more low level can be attributed to a lot of other things - undiagnosed stomach pain, bloating, trouble with food, diarrheoa, constipation, bladder problems - these can all come from adhesions but if you didnt know that then you would just see them as part and parcel of something else or ibs or some such.

I only know about mine because they caused complications with my second emcs.

I am trying not to talk specifically about my personal stuff anymore - have lost the ability to think up another namechange and dont want to be recognised...

I get annoyed when people think ELCS are just for people who don't fancy a VB.

If there is no valid medical reason for an ELCS, you can't have one as you need a consultant to agree (Unless you have a money tree in your garden and can go private).

That's why I get annoyed when people judge me for not VBing (1 EMCS, 1 ELCS) as I had valid medical reasons which I don't need to explain or share with anyone.

How other people actually give birth is up to them and I support all mothers in their personal choices, no matter what they are.

Omnishambles, if you say those are symptoms of adhesions, you are right that women might just attribute it to something else because they could very well be attributed to something else.

In the grand scheme of things, they are low level symptoms. I think I would rather live with them any day, as compared to the tena lady painful sex variety.

Hmm Nesta ...

I have a relative who chose ELCS for both her kids - by her own admission, no medical reasons involved but a strong personal preference. I suspect the reason this was allowed was because she herself is a consultant obstetrician

Yes I know but we have to be careful in not judging someone elses health problems - like peopel have different pain thresholds so they might be laid mentally low by always having diarrhea or contipation.

By far the worst thing about adhesions though is that they can make subsequent surgery very dangerous and the surgeons dont even know it - thats what happened to me and if there wasnt a urologist and other consultants and an intensive care unit on call in the major teaching hospital I was in then it would have been curtains...if I'd been in the Portland for example [shudders]

blueshoes - i think it is a genetic problem as my mums mum had very similar births and her first 2 children were born dead because they got stuck for too long in the birth canal and had forceps with episiotomys with all the rest
and had a prolapse with her last.
she was the first person to approve and understand my reasonings for choosing an elective and actualy cried tears of relief when it turned out i had a minor medical problem which meant i didn't have to fight for my section.

Also turned out that my sons head circ was too big to fit through my pelvis without causing damage.
he gets this from his dad - MIL damaged so much she couldn't carry another child, and DHs dads head also did the same to his mum

I count myself incrediably lucky, my instincts were right, which is what we should listen too more i think.