To wonder why people get so outraged by other's choices?

[Mooncupflowethover]

Talking mainly about elective caesareans/vaginal births here.

Why do people care SO much about what choice a woman makes regarding how she gives birth. I have read so many heated discussions on MN about this. Why do people get so aerated about it?

As far as I'm concerned, someone wants a VB, fine. Someone wants an ELC, fine. Why are so many people bothered about how someone else gives birth?? I'd understand if they were talking about their own birth choices!!

Anyway, that's my thought for the day

I doubt I'm BU!

Me, I had a pretty wonderful experience of an emergency caesarian of an IUGR baby, but I don't seem to feel the need to evangelise to other women and show them how they can have what I had (you need to start with the high blood pressure, then the pre-eclampsia...).

Seriously though, one of the best days of my life and the operating team were lovely.

Pain is completely subjective- how on earth do you measure pain thresholds?

Not suggesting that this is scientific or objective, but from observation, it is possible to tell that certain groups of women ask for pain relief earlier in the labour process than others. Or are more vocal about pain.

It might be subjective (as in the woman decides for herself how and when she needs pain relief) or depends on how vocal she is, but it is still capable of observation.

All you are observing is the interval between the start of labour and the request for pain relief; this is not an accurate measure of a level of pain.

I am not 'measuring' anything, if by 'measuring' you mean an objective level of pain, as if that exists.

That's what I said, blueshoes- you cannot measure pain or pain thresholds.

Why are you arguing with me if you agree?

Try posting a small minority view on this site and you will get flamed or called a troll. Try posting a very much minority view and you will be called a troll and complaints will go in to HQ. Some classic threads have been ended this way and I (and others no doubt) know exactly who the guilty parties are/were/will be.

Actually the very worst culprit seems to have oozed off but perhaps she has just name changed?

Apropos her what ever happened to her pal or sockpuppet betamale? I can hardly believe anybody ever really believed she was male.

I understood about 10% of that last post, dejavu...

dejavuaswell - could you list the topics that you think are forbidden. Just for reference like.

dejavuaswell can you reword your post please?

Drunk so not at the moment!

Do you mean ABetaDad?

I'm pregnant but have no interest in the birth style threads. They don't appear to be speaking to people like me, who just want to become a parent and see birth itself as an administrative task on the way to achieving that, as opposed to an 'experience' that I'm supposed to plan for as if I have the slightest clue how it's going to play out.

As for the fear/ pain thing, I wonder if on other wards where people have illnesses or injuries and have to have procedures and operations, the patients have to even consider whether maybe if they just relaxed then they wouldn't need medicine.

I'm 38 and have had many doctor/ dentist/ hospital visits over the years. I've always had great treatment and advice, and any medicine given to me has made me feel better. I have no reason now to suddenly suspect healthcare professionals of lying or having an agenda. They know all about it, I don't, I'll take their advice as I would on any other medical issue.

None of it will matter a jot once the baby is (touch wood) safely delivered.

MorrisZapp, well said, so so true!

I'm not in it for the experience of giving birth, never will be.

Great post, Morris Zapp.

haven't read the whole thread but

the personalis the political

these individuals choices affect us all eg tax/cost, generalisations health care professinals make about us, etc

Bad mood, tether?

Hope you are feeling better.

I dunno though forver, I think the most vitriol when it comes to ELCS is reserved for the sleb 'too posh to push' brigade and they pay for their treatment themselves!

I had an ELCS with ds as he was breech.

I was expecting the same again as this baby was breech but turned at 35 weeks so now I am hoping for a straight forward VBAC.

I am surprised by peoples comments, I have had lots of people congratulate me and tell me how wonderful their natural waterbirths were and I have also had people commiserate because they had awful natural births that have left them with incontinence issues, "Oh what a shame a csection would have been better" one helpful friend said .

I don't find their comments particularly helpful. I won't be having a waterbirth in a midwifery centre because I am high risk because of my previous birth so their birth experiences aren't relevant to me and I bloody hope that I won't be having a traumatic birth with lasting problems but who knows? What will be will be. All I can do is turn up with a positive attitude and hope for the best.

Actually, yes blueshoes- well spotted

I just got confused and snappy because we agree and were arguing, and I wasn't sure why.

I'm off to hit an inanimate object and blame someone else.

I think one of the criterea for assessing level/intensity of pain is whether you can talk through it or not. The contraction that is.

Re: MorrisZapp. The problem is that birth sometimes isn't just an administrative issue. It can alter your life both mentally and physically. Women generally remember their child's birth forever (drugs excepting) and those who had a particularly bad experience may be left with the mental and physical scars for a very long time.

It is worth undertaking childbirth preparation unless you are planning an ELCS.

Also, I don't see a comparison between birth and illness. Birth is normal and part of a functioning body. The body is well equipped to deal with it. Illness or injury are when a body is not functioning properly. Labour pain is very different from shutting your hand in a car door pain.

Finally, I wouldn't trust doctors implicitly. The situation isn't as bad in England, granted, but doctors don't tend to always follow evidence-based medicine. Many of them also are uninformed about out-of-hospital birth. Not all medical experts agree on birth so taking the opinion of any of them that you feel comfortable with is fair enough, but it's not an absolute truth. Personally, I'd do a lot more research than just trust a doctor.

agree but ALL the anger seems to be towards ELCS . There is no ire towards the natural/home birthers

why is that I wonder?

I get very annoyed by people that get all smug and pruod about their @natural@ drug free birth. dont get me wrong, I am happy that people have a good birth experience. But dont act like you want a fucking medal for it

porcamiseria - No one seems to be able to articulate exactly why an ELCS is such a terribly bad thing either. I seem to get the impression that people somehow think it's cheating, but no one seems to be able to give actual reasons as to why. I'd also be interested to see the much touted stats about how ELCSs are more risky than VBs, especially if they have been adjusted for the fact that high risk pregnancies are more likely to lead to an ELCS which will skew the statistics.

I had a fantastic birth experience with my ELCS and feel in no way less a mother, or less bonded with my DD because it was pain free and over in an hour.