Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To wonder why people get so outraged by other's choices?

189 replies

Mooncupflowethover · 03/04/2010 21:50

Talking mainly about elective caesareans/vaginal births here.

Why do people care SO much about what choice a woman makes regarding how she gives birth. I have read so many heated discussions on MN about this. Why do people get so aerated about it?

As far as I'm concerned, someone wants a VB, fine. Someone wants an ELC, fine. Why are so many people bothered about how someone else gives birth?? I'd understand if they were talking about their own birth choices!!

Anyway, that's my thought for the day

I doubt I'm BU!

OP posts:
CoteDAzur · 03/04/2010 22:51

thisisyesterday - If you are aware of homebirth's serious potential risks, then would you say your initial post in this thread with the sentence below was a bit disingenuous?

"If you see someone posting about an ELCS who appears to be very much uninformed about the potential risks of major surgery then I think people do want to come in and say "hang on... you know it isn;'t that simple...""

tethersend · 03/04/2010 22:51

I think thisisyesterday makes a very good point about why the risks of VB are often glossed over... It is part of the remit of antenatal professionals to encourage VB (and discourage CS) in order to meet WHO targets.

TheCrackFox · 03/04/2010 22:51

That is so weird Monty27, one of my friends had an ELC for her 2nd child and she asked to be sterelised and they refused. She was a bit pissed off.

TheCrackFox · 03/04/2010 22:52

"I think thisisyesterday makes a very good point about why the risks of VB are often glossed over... It is part of the remit of antenatal professionals to encourage VB (and discourage CS) in order to meet WHO targets."

If they are not going to give proper information at Antenatal classes then IMO they are pointless.

iamwhatiamwhatiam · 03/04/2010 22:53

This thread has been really civilised so far.

Long may it continue.

BoysAreLikeDogs · 03/04/2010 22:53

I am v v glad that my childbearing is over

child #1 born not breathing after a long labour where waters went very early on, turned out to have strep b so that was an horrific experience; he is nearly 11 now

child#2 crash c section after heartbeat dropped to 40 bpm from 150 in the space of about 10 minutes; he is nearly 8 now

thisisyesterday · 03/04/2010 22:53

no, i wouldn;'t because they risks of a CS ARE higher than those of a vaginal birth. a homebirth is statistically safer than a hospital birth... so no, i wouldn't say that at all.

but of course as has happened on the thread already it CAN be reversed and we can and should talk about potential risks of ANY way of giving birth

tethersend · 03/04/2010 22:54

I agree TheCrackFox.

I'm just pointing out that there is an agenda.

Monty100 · 03/04/2010 22:55

TCF - I was totally shocked. This was in 1993 in a university hospital in London. I thought it was really weird.

She scuttled away very quickly when I reacted the way I did.

Makes me wonder to this day why she said it.

I wasn't old, I wasn't unhealthy, ...... you know, why?

thisisyesterday · 03/04/2010 22:57

as an HCP, if you know that a c-section is (statistically) risker for a person, then how do you also explain the very real risks of vaginal birth without scaring her silly?

hmmm i think i knew a lot of the risks of VB before havng ds1, but only because of reading an NCT book I had, which probably made it seem less bad than it could be.

i can't decide if i'd want to know all the bad stuff or nto... lol

TheCrackFox · 03/04/2010 22:57

monty, maybe she got you mixed up with another patient, the one with 9 DCs?

TheCrackFox · 03/04/2010 22:58

Do they even know the long term risks of forceps delivery? Has there ever been a proper study?

thisisyesterday · 03/04/2010 23:00

i don't know. i can remember thinking that if it came to the option of forceps with ds1 I would insist on a c-section, although having read recent posts on here about forceps i am not sure it'd have got me far

iamwhatiamwhatiam · 03/04/2010 23:00

I'd like to know that too Thecrackfox.

It's a funny old world, innit.

Some people (none on this thread I hasten to add) love to attack ELCS on the grounds of informed choice.

But I really feel it was my VB that wasn't informed.

I know the ins and outs of a ducks arse when it comes to C-s now.

tethersend · 03/04/2010 23:06

Plenty of people have pointed out to me that I could have had my breech DD vaginally- but TBH, I wanted a CS and they offered me one.

I've never even been in labour.

I don't feel like I've lost out- so why do people (no-one on this thread) assume that my choice wasn't informed? Or that because I could have had a (risky) VB, I wanted to?

Monty100 · 03/04/2010 23:06

CF and Iam - even so, it was still insensitive.

She really hadn't done her homework though. My first had actually died of sids the year before, so I was actually childless at that time.

And she still offered me sterilisation. Good grief.

I digress.

Still, no matter what way a child is born, or what the mother chooses, as long as that child is healthy.. WHO CARES??

thisisyesterday · 03/04/2010 23:09

i guess, because you never know if that choice is informed? i know when i was pg that i thought if you had a breech baby then you HAD to have a c-section.

so, hypothetically, if ds1 had been breech and i'd posted on here about my impending c-section and someone assumed that i may not know about the possibility of a VB and told me... that would be a good thing no? enabling me to look into it further before making a final decision.

i'd rather tell someone something they already know and have dismissed than not tell them something they might really appreciate kwowing iyswim??

of coruse, no point at all going on about it after the deed

blueshoes · 03/04/2010 23:09

For my second birth, I wanted a elcs but the hospital insisted I attend a VBAC clinic instead. The senior midwife gave me all the cs stats I wanted. The only one they could not give me - which was the only one I was interested in - was what % of VBs ended in 3rd or 4th degree tears.

The senior midwife admitted it was surprising no research was done on it but 'reassured' me that in her years of midwifery, she only ever saw '3 or 4' tears that were that bad.

She must have taken me for a fool.

I knew then I would have an elcs. It was the right decison in hindsight.

iamwhatiamwhatiam · 03/04/2010 23:09

Tethersend, wandering totally off the point here but what does kicking feel like when the baby is breech?

Have been told this baby is breech since 20 week scan but can't really remember if it feels different to my first (head down) pregnancy.

wukter · 03/04/2010 23:11

Monty, that's so insensitive. I am sorry.

And you arer right - WHO CARES??

Consensus, ladies, I'll say it again. Not easy.

TheCrackFox · 03/04/2010 23:14

"so, hypothetically, if ds1 had been breech and i'd posted on here about my impending c-section and someone assumed that i may not know about the possibility of a VB and told me... that would be a good thing no? enabling me to look into it further before making a final decision."

I had a CS with DS1 because he was breech and I found it very patronising to be told on Mumsnet that I could have a VB.

thisisyesterday · 03/04/2010 23:16

really? i'd have just assumed people were trying to ensure i knew all the possibilities

i would totally expect them to back off if i said "yes, i'm aware of that but i've chosen x"

Monty100 · 03/04/2010 23:16

Wukter - thank you. It's ok. (I don't say it often on here just very quietly sometimes).

So,

There's easy and difficult both ways.

TheCrackFox · 03/04/2010 23:17

The Consultant will give you all the possibilities. They can't actually make you have a CS.

wukter · 03/04/2010 23:21

But that's the thing Crackfox, about miscommunications. You found it patronising, someone else may not genuinely have known. The person telling you doesn't know your reaction in advance but is taking the risk that they may be helpful.
Like I said upthread, it's such an emotive and subjective thing - people do feel defensive and - dare I say it - oversensitive.

(And I speak as one who was fairly patronised and preached to in her time, btw)