to be questioning my entire life plan because I read Stephen Biddulph's Raising Babies?

[mrsbean78]

I'm posting this on AIBU because I want to canvass a diverse range of opinions - and because I haven't decided what I think myself.

I have a four month old boy and am in the process of finalising childcare/my return to work arrangements (due to heavy demand in our area).

I've been bothered about my choice (a daycare nursery) since day one, and am going to look into other options before committing and would prefer a childminder.

However, today at the library I spotted the 'Raising Babies' book and as the little man was napping, skim read quite a bit of it.

Wishing I hadn't. So much of it made sense.. it's common sense that a parent will stimulate and respond to a baby more than even the very best childcare worker on a ratio of 1:3, or even 1:1. Amaxing how I never thought of this before!

Just wondering if anyone here read it and threw it in the bin in disgust (and why) OR read it and promptly rearranged their lives naccordingly (and why) OR "other" (and why)?

Bits of Biddulph make sense to me, and parts of it make me go He's a 'brand' and needs to promote his theories, as do most childcare gurus.

I think the sticking point is that you don't like the nursery option.

I had to go back to work, and also looked into nurseries, but couldn't get on with the concept, even the really nice ones. It didn't work for me, I wanted him at home, being cared for individually. So we got a nanny.

The most important thing is that you are happy and confident in your childcare choices, whether that is a nursery, a childminder, a nanny or whatever. It's hard enough going back to work. You need to be, at the very least, secure and content with your childcare arrangements, in order to make it through those first weeks.

I think you should trust your instinct really.

The first step is to work out what you would like to do if you had a totally free choice.

The second step is to see how far you can actually do that, and what if any life changes would be necessary.

Its such an emotive subject and everyone wants to do the best for their kids, as well as being limited by circumstances (finances/mortgages etc).

DH and I were always very clear in our own minds that we did not want DD (9 months) in formal childcare until she was at least getting on for three. We totally changed our lives when my maternity leave ended when DD was 6 months old. We moved back up to Cumbria where I am from so that my parents would be able to have DD one day a week and to get rid of our astronomical mortgage on our attractive city centre house down south where we used to live. We both work three days a week and look after DD two days a week each. We were lucky that we could afford to do it on my salary only while DH set up a new business and looked for a day or two of paid employment in his field and that I would be able to work at home for a proportion of the time.

Financially we have very little spare money now and our new house is def not such a good investment as our old one was. We never have new clothes or go out really and have to go round the supermarket with a calculator (we eat LOTS of stew ...!)We won't be having a holiday this year save for a week in a cottage with my parents which they have paid for. Our car is 10 years old and not ideal for kids as only three doors.

It is hard sometimes - I enjoyed my lattes and paninis, and my smart haircuts and spending money generally! Now I only have £10 a month to myself, which is hard when you are working hard as you feel like you deserve money for yourself. I'm either working or caring for DD and am constantly on the go but have far less money than I did as a student, even.

But for me knowing that DD is with DH or her grandparents while I am away from her is so great and allows me to enjoy my job without worrying about her; you can't put a price on that. And it's not forever - before we know where we are DD and any younger siblings will be at school, DHs new business will have taken off and bring in more money, and things will be different.

I speak entirely personally as I know it's a difficult subject and many people do not have the degree of choice they would like. But I do feel very uneasy with long hours at nursery for babies and small toddlers.

I'm with Bumpsadaisie, do what your instinct is telling you. If you can afford to not return to work and you keep on feeling that you want to stay at home, maybe that is the right thing for you.

I was really glad I could look after ds until he was over 6mo, but after that I was wanting to get back into work and he seemed to want more places to explore and other people to charm.

Luckily there's lots of nurseries near me so I could avoid the ones which seemed to be boisterious and chaotic and the scary one with the scary disciplinarian manager, and go for one which was small and home-like - 6-9 under-2s, 2 or 3 staff with them at all times, and as it's a totally child-safe environment unlike home (building site and cluttered) and the staff don't have to do anything apart from look after the kids, I'm sure he's getting more attention than if he were home with me.

I'm probably swayed by the fact that I loved nursery more than home myself, but ds is very like me in many ways. 8 months in, he's clearly loving it. If I had to go back to work but only had one of the other nurseries I saw to choose from, I would be very stressed and worried and looking for childminders.

instinct doesnt pay bills.you need to be pragmatic

what can you afford.this will dictate your options.whether sahm or work
how does this affect you long term
what will you do when baby at school
how will you maintain career.or do you want complete break and resume when baby at school

I agree with bumpsadaisie. I would go with your instinct rather than books, but be prepared to be flexible with your plans. I found my 18 month old DS a lovely childminder when I returned to work two days per week because I was instinctively drawn to having a homely setting and small child to carer ratios, but he never settled with her at all. It was a nightmare. As there were no nannies available in my area that could do hours we needed to care for DS in our home, we sent him to a local nursery. He really loves it and for him it is the best solution, even though it is one which instinctively we would not have chosen.

I think the generalisations in these kinds of books are unhelpful.

OP you need to get a grip.
Even thought of middle ground. not binning it or re-arranging life, but a middel of the road :
taking on board some of it and making minor adjustments.
Yes Biddulph makes some good points. Some of it is a tad OTT and unrealistic.

But when you read a book, be it Gina Ford, How-To-Talk, Anabell Karmel, take what you want from it. don't feel guilty. but just learn and adjust.

why is it impossible for mums to do this.
I read GF. I feel so crap. oh terrible GF.
I read annabell karmel. i don't do it that well. Oh she makes mums feel worthless. oh she does so much damage.

nonsense. mums do this to themselves.
grow a spine. stop blaming the authors for making you feel terrible.
take what you want from a book. and dismiss the rest.

some mums want to be at home with their children . some don't. some prefer nanny's/childminders/nursery's. some want to work, some have to work. I am happy with my choices. i chose to work part time. and i am happy with ds2 in nursery, as i was happy with ds1, when he was in nursery 2 days a week.
do what works for you. talk to your dh. bin all the books. in your gut you know what is right for you.

dont decide significant choices from a book - esp not a book that has a skewed and specific point to make

all this instinct stuff is woolly and whimsy

get a serious grip.think practically and rationally

how much money to you need to be solvent and live as you wish is pivotal.this determines whether you return to work or not

what kind of life do you want to live

where do you want to be in 5 years when baby at school

write down pro and con of each of your options

and dont traipse around mn or rl asking others what to do.you will end up judged regardless of what you do. no one else answer or subjective opinion is right for you.

these decisions are life changing and you undertake them largely alone - you cant abdicate the responsibility

i have only read first few posts as i have to run, but someone said (wisely) that it's all about compromise. I dont know what the correct answer is, but for me the ideal solution is balance and i have been lucky to have had 12 months full maternity leave so my DC was walking and talking (only couple words but still) by the time i went back to work part time. DC then went to nursery for 3 days a week and with me remainder.

For me this is the solution, a bit of balance. It means also i can feel double guilt at being a SAHM and also being a working mum and also using a nursery. But then i can justify all that guilt as all these states are only "part time"

it works so well for me and i feel like i have thoroughly hedged all my bets. Is there anyway you could look into just being part time even for a short while if not for good? Also for me the fact DC was walking from 10 months really helped, as in my mind was no longer baby but toddler which helped me mentally. Plus i had fantastic time at home but knew i would never be happy being SAHM on a permanent basis.

I truly feel lucky and that i have had best of both worlds (yes sometimes the worst of both too) but on balance i have been the truly lucky one. DC now starting school in Sept and is wonderful social child.

good luck with your choices (if you have any choice that is). think of the long term pic as well as short term. and also remember you iwll have a little blip before/after going back to work if that is what you choose, it's normal and doesn't mean you are choosing wrong path. And whichever path you choose you do not have to stay on forever, always change things and find a way if you really need to

wish you every happiness

I would politely tell asnyone who has asked me to get a grip to get one themselves. Should be pretty clear from the OP I am just interested in a diverse range of opinions and experiences - and where better to get wildly diverging opinions than AIBU. Hardly think asking for general chat on an internet forum = 'abdicating responsibility'

Great points on both sides here. God, I wish I had trusty ol' grandparents I could dump the wee man on. I would skip happily back to a four day week. But no can do so I am trying to work out the middle ground..

Very interested in people's memories of their childhood experiences and how individual these are. I was taken care of by my grandmother, who lived in our home. My sister was taken care of by a childminder who I remember as being very cold and distant (hence my initial instinct for nursery).

anecdotes,memories from psoters are all very nice but no shouldnt sway your decision

as i said pragmatically what can you afford to do.to my mind that is pivotal.all else follows

all these baby books have a specific message,a usp and axe to grind

whether it is gina,annabelle,bidduulph or whoever

i have memeories and i know what my specific pov on this is,and could wax on about it but hell i wouldnt expect anyone to take it on board just because it worked for me

there is the rub,what is great for one mum isnt good for the other

Good post Scottishmummy

My sister works in a nursery and she genuinely, truly loves the children she looks after. She cries when they leave.

Sure, it's a job. But when your job is childcare you can't help but form real attachments to your little charges.

I also agree with the poster who said stop blaming authors for making women feel shit. You don't have to read the books, you don't even have to buy the books, and for every book that says do X, there's another one preaching the opposite.

This has moved on a pace since I last posted (no surprises there - this debate does tend to do that) but I noticed several people asking what is so special about the age of 3 as an age after which nursery is considered to be OK.

3 is the age at which children begin cooperative play and start to play together rather than ignoring each other or playing along side one another. It is the age when they start to make friends. To say a baby has to go to nursery to make friends is nonsense because they aren't developmentally ready for it. They can meet people, interact and learn to communicate but they can do that when they are with anybody who engages with them properly, they don't need children of their own age.

Babies making 'friends' is not a reason to be sending them to nursery by itself. There may be many other good reasons but that isn't one of them.

Seems to me, if you take out those who are convinced theirs is the best way and that everybody else should do the same, the majority that are left are saying trust your own instincts and what is best for your child and you. Don't bother with anybody's else's theories of childcare because they will ultimately make your head explode.

I think that Penelope Leach's study would truly be interesting if they followed the children until adulthood. Would there be any significant findings that show that one particular form of childcare was more beneficial in the long-term? I imagine not (but am willing to be corrected if there is such evidence.)

OP - I think it is entirely natural to question your choices and feel that somehow you are doing things 'wrong'. We all do it. But as long as you are making decisions that always take into account the needs and cirumstances of your family and your child, then you are doing your best. And that's just about all you can do.

This is a thread that probably chimes with all Mums. So many things to say and yet, each Mum needs to find their own answers!!

Having a child changes our perspective of the world and our role in it. It takes a while (probably the rest of our lives as it changes all the time!) to work out how we feel about those changes, what they mean and what to do about it.

Books that question our perspective are good as they make us think but often really hard to read as they make us feel insecure in our opinions. They are written by people who believe so fully in what they "know" to be right, they need to convince everyone else that any other answer in wrong. What is difficult is finding the pieces of information that are right for us and making them work in our lives. (I'm currently sitting on two parenting books that I need to be in the right frame of mind to take in the messages without being angered by the self righteous opinions.)

I returned to work and put DS in nursery, despite reading the books and hearing other opinions from well meaning (if not always right and somewhat undermining) relatives. Nursery did not work for us and having a lovely nanny did. DC2 had a nanny from when I went back to work and DC3 had a SAHM from before he was even conceived. If I had my time over, would I do it differently, not sure but I needed to go on the journey to get here.

Don't be hard on yourself, keep your mind open, try to hear the messages meant for you. Make the changes you need to for you all to be happy and learn to live with the fact that you will never be 100% convinced that every decision you make is 100% correct. Learn to understand and accept the compromises and risks - a life long lesson, I think!!

How old is that study? How extensive? What are her qualifications?

Most of the studies quoted by the agenda ridden Biddulph are US based, completely inappropriate to an assessment of UK childcare. The US has been shown to have a much lower standard of childcare settings, compounded by short maternity leave/earlier entry into childcare, longer days and less holidays. The UK and much of Europe on the other hand have longer mat leave, later entry into fulltime care, much higher quality and better regulated childcare settings......

Apples and oranges.

I think it's good to question ourselves, and often these books can be a catalyst.
However, I don't beliwve a book can provide the answers. Every child and family is different. So there is no 'best' way of doing things.
Child rearing feels so important that I think we want there to be a 'right' way, but sadly there's not.

What I can tell you is that I've worked FT and PT. I've been a SAHM and now I work from home. None of it was perfect. But my children have always been perfectly happy if that makes sense.

there is no definitive book or theory on childhood.despite what anyone asserts

just be good enough mum

as a mum you develop a thick skin,as having a baby suddenly makes one public property and recipient of lots of unasked for wacky opinions

Dear Mrsbean78 I am quite new to Mumsnet, mothering knowledge and children. I only have one child. I do know that hardest thing in the last two years has been wanting to do the right thing for him when sometimes there has only been the best thing and I haven't always known what the best thing is. I read that book too - but only recently as I always seem to be a few months behind my child - and like all the books I think you have to take the good advice from it and then fit it to your circumstances. Easy to write and difficult to do (also for me). Good luck

these for profit books feed insecurities,stoke up guilt,and are flawed in they advocate the one way (the author selling you the book obviously)

imho ditch the toxic books
figure out what individually works for you
accept your fucked whatever you chose

And CinnabarRed, you raise a good point about the quality of SAHM mum care. I had PND for the first year of my eldest dc's life and though she does well academically, she is also the most anxious of her peer group and will often just cry and tell me she doesn't know why, but feels sad. I do wonder if it is connected. So yes, she does 'well', but needs a lot more help to be happy.

(As a disclaimer - this is my very personal experience. I do not in any way feel that having PND makes any one a 'bad mother'.)

My son (11) is similar to Tallest Tower's child, and he had no childcare other than me or DH, and I did not have PND. I think it is a perfect description - he needs help to be happy. DD (8) went to a nursery and a childminder and she has always been a very happy person. The only childcare they have both hated has been out of school club, because it is so badly run, so I try to avoid that wherever possible.

I don't know if anecdotes are helpful - maybe it shows every family is different. We cannot know how our children are going to turn out and none of these studies seem conclusive.

I do think that many women with babies put the happiness of their baby ahead of their own happiness to an excessive degree. If your baby is going to be 5% happier at home, but you are going to be 80% unhappier, why be a SAHM? SImilarly , if your child is going to be happier at a nursery, but you will be happier being a SAHM, then be a SAHM.

I really don't think we should be bringing our children up to believe the happiness of women is trivial or unimportant is a good way of child rearing.

That should have said -
I really don't think we should be bringing our children up to believe the happiness of women is trivial or unimportant; it is not a good way of child rearing.