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Original poster

stopping my kids going to a Catholic Church

576 replies

jennyslinger · 17/03/2010 22:57

I know religion is contentious so I'd like to say up front that I am a confirmed atheist and my DH is a confirmed catholic. This is not about the rights or wrongs of believing in god.

DH wants DS and DD (when she's 4yo) to go to our local Cathocis church to attend sunday school and get involved with other church activities.

I have read so much over the last few years about the child abuse cover-up in the Catholic Church. For this reason I have told DH and his family that the kids will not be going.

DH says I am fussing over nothing.

I asked DH he knew a nursery had covered up child abuse would he be happy with the kids going. He says this is not the same.

Am I being unreasonable?

OP posts:
clutha · 19/03/2010 07:55

Hi Jennyskinger,
i wouldnt let my kids go to the Catholic church either (nor any church), as its just brainwashing.

You should wait until they are older enough to think for themselves and let them decide which if any church they want to go to, even if its a different relgion to their parents.

It's ironic you mentioned Arthur C clarke, wasnt he charged for child abuse as well??

(yes he was cleared, the point being put it in persepctive, child abuse cases in this case isnt a proper reason to prevent kids going to catholic church)

Original poster
jennyslinger · 19/03/2010 07:58

@RedbinDippers "As a disinterested observer I would like to know why Christianity and Roman Catholicism ever got linked together."

Roman Catholics are christian.

If you mean Catholic and Anglican - they are actually the same. One is Roman Catholic and the other is Anglo Catholic. Same thing except one is ruled from Rome and the other from England. Its all down to Henry VIII who split the church from Rome so he could divorce.

OP posts:
OrmRenewed · 19/03/2010 08:01

I think part of the problem is that the Catholic Church is a very old establishment. And very largely unchanged over the centuries. In common with other institutions that were in existence in, for example, the 16th century, it condoned and carried out fairly vile practices and was fairly corrupt and venal. So was the monarchy of all the countries in Europe. But by and large those monarchies have either been swept away or changed beyond all recognition. The Catholic Church is the one organisation that seems to remain the same monolithic Medieval establishment that it always was. Undoubtedly there are changes but they are largely invisible to non-Catholics. Abuse of children is just another facet to, for many of us, a secretive and quite powerful organisation.

This is not to say that individual Catholics or Catholic communities are responsible for any of this. I went to a Catholic convent until I was 10 and by and large it was a good experience. I go to Mass with friends sometimes and the people I meet and delightful and welcoming. There is a big difference IME between the faith and the Church.

daftpunk · 19/03/2010 08:17

LG;

Sorry, I had to walk away from this yesterday, it was getting too much for me....(plus I wanted to watch Fulham....ha ha )

I will reply to you...

BattyKoda · 19/03/2010 08:25

'the collection money in my parish is mostly put towards the local homeless hostel and supporting a group that take learning disabled children out for trips to give their carers some time off. Pretty dreadful causes...'

The Catholic Church, 'organisation', whatever, is worth absolutely billions, but they need donations to be able to help the homeless

Lets put it this way, take a national nursery brand. It's discovered that the manager of one of the branches in the nursery chain is found to have been abusing children. Not only that, but the people at head office silenced the child and their family by paying them and then re located this 'manager' to work at a different nursery. It's then discovered that this has happened again, and again. Which one of you would be signing up your little ones to a branch of this nursery chain?? Just because this abuse is clouded with 'religion' it does not mean it should be ignored and made about to be less of a deal than it is. Those of you that have quoted the figues showing that it is rare and just as likely elsewhere disgust me, you are in complete denial as to what your 'organisation' stands for.

seeker · 19/03/2010 08:27

What did I tell you? daftpunk the persecuted minority - knew that would be the next phase.

Well, now you're back, you can justify saying that my posts were "truely shocking" and "bollox"

daftpunk · 19/03/2010 08:31

Seeker..it's only 8.30 and someone has already told me to fuck off..

...I'm persecuted I tell ya

fin54 · 19/03/2010 08:38

Catholic Church should be abolished, if this was any other organisation the whole country would be up in arms SCREAMING that every one of them should be prosecuted and jailed. TALK about perverts and paedophiles

coralanne · 19/03/2010 09:41

Heard on he news that some Chuexh of England parishes in USA, Canada and OZ are reverting back to Rome.

Pogleswood · 19/03/2010 09:44

Catholic and Anglican are not the same,jennyslinger.And Anglo Catholics are part of the C of E but not all Anglicans are anglo catholic...

Original poster
jennyslinger · 19/03/2010 09:45

that will teach them ho-mo-sexuals from messing with god and that there church.

OP posts:
noddyholder · 19/03/2010 10:05

respect to the 8.30 poster! You speak for many

2Eliza2 · 19/03/2010 10:23

People keep going on and on about Ireland and abuses there. Last time I looked the OP was based in ENGLAND.

The societal background of Ireland in the seventies and eighties was utterly different to that of the UK, much easier for priests to abuse children.

2Eliza2 · 19/03/2010 10:25

Damian Thompson in the Telegraph writes a good article here about this very subject.

And it's true that other organisations have covered up abuse: what about all those children's home workers who were never exposed by the local authorities? There were schools in the seventies and eighties who didn't report abusing teachers to the police but quietly sacked them.

glastocat · 19/03/2010 11:29

2Eliza2, you're not seriously suggesting that the OP shouldn't be concerned because the widespread and endemic abuse only happened in Ireland? If only that were true anyway!

And of course if there were cover ups in children's homes they should be exposed! I don't see anyone disagreeing with that. So why is it ok for the heirarchy of the Catholic church still, to this day, to try their best to cover up/ignore/blame the victims?

2Eliza2 · 19/03/2010 11:43

The OP was asking whether it was safe for her to take her children to a Catholic church over here. I pointed out that the number of cases in the UK was far smaller than it was in Ireland or America. Obviously even one case in the UK is one case too many!

The hierarchy of the Catholic church in the uk does not 'still, to this day, to try their best to cover up/ignore/blame the victims'. I don't know what happens in other countries and wouldn't speak for them.

There has been a massive programme within the church in the UK, praised by Lord Nolan himself before his death. I have been, in a very small way, part of this programme, in that I have been through the new volunteer security checking process myself.

It is far more rigorous than anything I have come across as a school or sports club volunteer. ANd quite right too.

glastocat · 19/03/2010 11:53

But 2Eliza2, the OP is more concerned about getting involved in an organisation where there has been a massive world wide cover up of abuse going back generations. Can't you see how that would be a worry, even if you were quite certain that your child was safe at Sunday school?

And I'm glad you have faith that the Catholic church is no longer trying to cover up what happened. I have no such belief, particularly as new stories regarding cover ups seem to break on an almost daily basis.

daftpunk · 19/03/2010 12:12

LG;

I don't know how further I can take things with you..you seem unable, or possibly unwilling to accept any criticism of homosexuals.

I can understand that, being catholic I have to deal with criticism all the time...this child abuse issue has just become a witch hunt...would this be such a big story if child abuse had been going on in 100's of mosques..?....I very much doubt it....

Catholic = easy target...

Re; the gay adoption thing.

I'm really struggling with getting through to you, I will try and keep it as simple as possible.

Catholics do not believe homosexuality is natural...it goes against what we believe in....therefore it is bleeding obvious we will not place children with homosexuals...

My cat would understand that....I'm not sure why you have trouble with it.

glastocat · 19/03/2010 12:16

My husband and a few friends have signed up to this.

www.countmeout.ie/why/

seeker · 19/03/2010 12:17

While your waiting for LeninGrad, daftpunk - don't forget you were going to show me my "truly shocking"posts and the "bollox" I posted.

LeninGrad · 19/03/2010 12:20

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

glastocat · 19/03/2010 12:22

Back to the 'natural' word again....

What utter bullshit. I have no time for homophobes.

Monty100 · 19/03/2010 12:25

DP - I'm Catholic, and I certainly believe in homosexuality, I know quite a few gay men and women. So how can you not believe in it?

The Catholic Church that I attend has gay members of the congregation. And even a transexual!!!

Still not believe in it????

Well, I can tell you, it's true. There are indeed gay men and women.

daftpunk · 19/03/2010 12:26

LG, you can't change religion...you do know that don't you..?

LeninGrad · 19/03/2010 12:29

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.