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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think that sexual exploration between an (10 yr old) brother and (5 year old) sister is inappropriate?

136 replies

onemissing · 14/03/2010 21:16

Hi all

My 5 year old daughter had a (girl)friend to stay last night and they shared a bed on the floor. I overheard them chatting and her (also 5 yr old) friend suggested my daughter took her pyjama bottoms off and that they rub themselves together.

She went on to say that she does it with her brother (who is 10) and that it makes your tummy tingle and is "like kissing a handsome boy". She said "If you don't want to, just tell me", to which my daughter said "I don't want to, do it with your brother' (!).

I didn't say or do anything, because I was satisfied that my daughter had been clear about her boundaries, and this had been respected. However,I do feel concerned about what's going on with this little girl and her brother, particularly as there is a 5 year age gap.

The brother has been involved in a couple of other incidences which I know about of being overly sexual, once with a much younger girl. Him and his sister share a bedroom.

He is a very sweet and sensitive boy, but quite anxious and troubled, and I wonder how all this fits in with that.

I feel I'm going to have to talk to their mum (a good friend) about what was said, but she can be quite heavy handed with her kids and I'm a bit worried about how sensitively (or otherwise) she'd deal with it.

What to do?

OP posts:
Mongolia · 16/03/2010 17:04

Poor woman (the one in the article), TBH I can't judge her, I really have no idea how would I react if I found my young child has sexually abused x number of children including her own little brother, even if she was also a victim of abuse. Perhaps I would be mad at myself... and also more protective of the most vulnerable victim.

It should be hell, at some point DS enjoyed getting naked in other people's houses (he was about 3), I was utterly mortified and worried about him doing it when he was invited for playdates. I can't imagine what this woman may be through worrying about her child abusing other children when not properly supervised.

alypaly · 16/03/2010 19:01

AF and piglet thanks for asking..i dont sleep well at all.i so wish i could....too much rubbish going round in my head. Never feel relaxed.I have struggled with all this for so long....i only have my 2 older boys and at times it would be nice just to have a close friend to talk to. someone to trust........

Mathsmadmummy.......yes he did get away with it and guess what he is now??????? A lay preacher. He was such a pervert and he got another young girl from next door involved too. I hate him because it caused me to have a breakdown as i bottled it up til i was 33 and it really came to a head after i had my first child.
I didnt speak to him for 13 years until i was forced into a situation where my mum had a stroke. After she died i told him never to contact me again and i actually called him a paedophile to his face. He never said he was sorry....he lamed it on his dead mother for showing him no affection.

It terrifies me that he is around children in his church environment as he is a real pervert.

OP please dont let this happen to one more child.

alypaly · 16/03/2010 19:10

shilke ...i told my mum when i was 33 after i ended up having a nervous breakdown and to add insult to injury ,she didnt believe me until i asked her to confront him and then he admitted it to her in a very blasé fashion.She dint speak to him for a year and then all of a sudden everything was ok and she started to see him again. That upset me so much when she said'well he is my son and as such i should treat you both the same'
Did she not realise that her son had taken away her 8 year old daughters innocence,virginity and childhoodand mentally scarred me for life.
He used to get my friend who was 9 and me to do the most dreadful things that make me sick thinking about them. As a result it has affected my ability to trust men and i put up emotional barriers now as i dont want to hurt anymore.

I shudder when i think that dreadful man had a daughter who was just 8 when his wife died and i know she used to go to his bed for a cuddle after loosing her mummy. I dread to think........

alypaly · 16/03/2010 19:18

thanks porcamiseria....i try and get on with life but tv programmes(channels like sexcetera) and stuff like that make me heave and programmes on abuse make me very tearful. I know its a horrible thing to say but i cant wait for him to depart from this planet....he destroyed my first few months with my new baby as i was so ill from depression. I will never forgive him,

I am so sorry others have suffered too.....

pigletmania · 16/03/2010 20:46

Aww Alypaly big hugs is all I can offer . Have you been for counselling or therapy to help you deal with things. Unless you have been in that situation you cannot imagine what the person is going through. I think of people like you Aly and I am so grateful for my childhood, though not perfect but i can look back and say that I did and my parents did their best to provide me with a loving and secure home and environment, sadly my dad passed away when i was 11 so i did not know him as well but have lovely memories.

thecaptaincrocfamily · 16/03/2010 20:55

I would be really concerned about how the two children have learned this overly sexual behaviour. It is not unusual for girls to discover the pleasure of rubbing bits but when the older brother is involved it is a worry, especially since he has been overly sexual in the past.
I would contact social services to investigate further. His anxiety could suggest he is being abused.

MrsAFlowerpot · 16/03/2010 21:12

As someone who works in this field (referral and judgement) I cannot stress strongly enough that you need to get in touch with SS

missmoopy · 16/03/2010 21:27

Where the hell has OP gone?
Alypaly, I am so sorry to hear your story, and others, and think you are immensely brave to post about it. I hope your stories can encourage the OP and others to break the silence. I work with far too many people every day who have been terribly damaged by their childhoods.

alypaly · 16/03/2010 21:34

hi piglet...yes i was in hospital for 3 months after my breakdown and then psychotherapy sessions for 6 months, as initially i just thought i had PND.Until one day when i was in a group that was talking about sexual abuse and i just broke down when someone talked about something similar. I have talked it all out really ,but it has had a profound effect on my life. It has left me numb and afraid of becoming involved with anyone. I am a single parent and have been for 17 years as my OH did the dirty and then i could never trust him. Life has been a bit tough really but i keep going for the sake of my wondeful boys. It mostly doesnt affect me now except it has left me with this awful legacy of not being able to sleep hardly at all.

Unfortunately i dont remember any of my childhood except the abuse. My first real memories of any kind of life were at about 11. I had a horrible chidhood with a violent and alcoholic father who also gambled all the family income so life was never happy. And mum found it difficult to show emotion...but i loved her.Would just like to meet someone who i could trust then maybe i could go to sleep peacefully.

Going back to the OP i think the boy needs help to realise what is not acceptable and he needs help immediately. I hopr SS can access these pages...please MNHQ let them help these children

missmoopy · 16/03/2010 21:41

((((alypaly))))

alypaly · 16/03/2010 21:51

thankyou everyone for your kind thoughts....i feel i have more friends on here than in RL.....wish you all lived near

MrsPixie · 16/03/2010 22:01

aly you are truly so brave. I wish you all the luck in the world. If I lived near you I would be over with wine and cake x

alypaly · 16/03/2010 22:13

thanks mrspixie...i dont feel brave, i just feel like one of lifes unfortunate statistics,but i would love to take up counselling now as i have learnt so much.

come over with the cake and wine...sounds great to me would love the company

MrsPixie · 16/03/2010 22:23

You are brave even if you don't feel it. Whereabouts are you? (you don't have to say)

What a surprise it would be - me in my dressing gown and rollers with a bottle lol

missmoopy · 16/03/2010 22:23

Sending virtual cake and wine your way!
Rape Crisis offer counselling to people who have been sexually abused as well as to people who have been raped. Because sexual abuse is rape however you look at it.
Just reread your post alypaly, do you mean become a counsellor? If you can, do it - your experiences could help others.

mrsboogie · 16/03/2010 22:51

there is an item on Newsnight right now about children sexually abusing other kids

alypaly · 16/03/2010 23:44

im in stockport cheshire,misspixie...where are yo? Im in PJ's with glass of campari right now. Just fancied one!

Miss Moopy ...i know i could do...was on a very long thread with adelicatequestion and a few others and i just know deep down i could help....not as a cathartic thing but just to help others who are suffering on their own....as it does make you feel isolated and dirty.

Sorry OP we have gone off the track a little

Original poster
onemissing · 16/03/2010 23:46

I called the NSPCC helpline a couple of times last night but was unable to get through. I then called a helpline called Stop It Now, who gave me some excellent advice, which I followed.

I'm afraid I don't feel able to share any more information about what's currently going on with this situation as I'm very worried that some of those involved may read this.

I just wanted to thank all of you so much for your advice and help, and say how saddened I am to hear that some of you have been through such terrible experiences of abuse.

Hopefully these kids will now get the help they so desperately need.

OP posts:
mrsboogie · 16/03/2010 23:50

well done on taking action OP.

AnyFucker · 17/03/2010 07:28

well done, OP

((( aly )))

porcamiseria · 17/03/2010 08:55

thnaks for coming back OP, and sorry you got caught up in this.

MathsMadMummy · 17/03/2010 09:09

really glad you phoned them OP, you've done the right thing by those kids. hope it'll all get sorted out asap.

pigletmania · 17/03/2010 09:14

Well done Onemissing you did the right thing. Aww Aly you are incredibly brave and, no you will never forget what has happened but hope that you find some peace. You never know what the future holds for you, you might be pleasently surprised one day

carrieboo75 · 17/03/2010 10:06

Thats great onemissing, very brave as it really came across how much you didn't want to, but you have done the right thing, no doubt.

Aly - I don't know if you have seen but the CRB is in the process of being changed to a new more detailed system that holds information about any suspisions, any unconvicted offences etc. It only applys to those who work with children at the moment, but as a lay preacher he is probably subject to it. What I am getting at is even though the abuse did not go to the police, court etc you can ring up and get it put onto this new record. That is the whole point of the new system, it contains all the info whether or not it has been substantiated in order to be able to protect children better.

Sorry I can't remember what it is called or what the tel number is but if you look on the internet I am sure you will find it. It is being phased in over time so it may not apply to his job right now but it will at somepoint.

Good luck.

carrieboo75 · 17/03/2010 10:20

Aly - It is 'The Independant Safeguarding Authority' that will be complieing the records. They will come into place from July 2010. Their call centre number is 03001231111 and the website is www.isa-gov.org.uk. I can not find any direct number for reporting people, I guess because it is not up and running yet, however from what I have seen the plan is to make it easy for people to report any info. I'm sure if you call them they could advise you on when, how etc. I would of thought SS would of been able to help you get the info on record as well.