to think that sexual exploration between an (10 yr old) brother and (5 year old) sister is inappropriate?

[onemissing]

Hi all

My 5 year old daughter had a (girl)friend to stay last night and they shared a bed on the floor. I overheard them chatting and her (also 5 yr old) friend suggested my daughter took her pyjama bottoms off and that they rub themselves together.

She went on to say that she does it with her brother (who is 10) and that it makes your tummy tingle and is "like kissing a handsome boy". She said "If you don't want to, just tell me", to which my daughter said "I don't want to, do it with your brother' (!).

I didn't say or do anything, because I was satisfied that my daughter had been clear about her boundaries, and this had been respected. However,I do feel concerned about what's going on with this little girl and her brother, particularly as there is a 5 year age gap.

The brother has been involved in a couple of other incidences which I know about of being overly sexual, once with a much younger girl. Him and his sister share a bedroom.

He is a very sweet and sensitive boy, but quite anxious and troubled, and I wonder how all this fits in with that.

I feel I'm going to have to talk to their mum (a good friend) about what was said, but she can be quite heavy handed with her kids and I'm a bit worried about how sensitively (or otherwise) she'd deal with it.

What to do?

I also say give an 'authority' a ring.

Fast forward three years, and how do you think your relatinship will be with your friend if this sexual behaviour isn't curbed?

Also the children involved, think of the literal, physical damage, that could be caused to an 8 year olds underdevelped body, never mind emotionally!

I know it is a minefield, but you have to put your own emotions, out of the way and be practical.

If you can do it anonymously, as backhanded as it may be, you could still be a good support to your friend, when she really may need it.

Well as the mum is your friend I would talk to her about it and tell her how very uncomfortable you feel.Say that if she were not such a close friend you would definitely go to SS-show her this thread and let her deal with it or ask for help.Its a huge step to involve SS imho.

Tell social services - let them get to the bottom of it. Its not about hanging out the 10 year old its about protecting both him and the 5 year old and other children that they come into contact with. The worse case scenario there is nothing untoward happening. Thats got to be better than the alternative.

Message withdrawn

strongly agree with other posters - please do not discuss with the mother and phone Social Services.

Delivering negative news to someone about their child in particluar a friend rarely goes well/according to plan. I know it's not the same but if you read the bullying between friends threads you will see how going to the friend rather than the offical (school) route backfires. You could easily do more damage than good even though you didn't mean to. Months on not only have I lost the friend but numerous other friends are now cold, and the message sent to the children was very mixed. In your case not only do you risk problems with your friend/s but you risk any other issues being covered up swept under the carpet. What if you tell your friend and she reacts badly and cuts you out of the loop? What if she tells you she will deal with it and doesn't? What if someone else is interfering with this boy and she unwittingly lets on to them that you have suspisions? SS are profesionals and know how to deal carefully with these things. If you can't face ss talk to NSPCC first and disscuss it through with them, then give yourself time to think about it. Do not tell the mum anything untill you have taken full advice from those in the know.

Your gut is telling you that something is not right and you have to go with that as we get that felling by picking up on lots of tiny cues even if we can't verbalise them. SS will know what to look for and be able to do an assesment of the situation. SS would also be able to raise with your friend that 10 year old boys should not be sharing a room with their sister (I think there is a ruling where they need separate room once the boy reaches either 5 or 7 can't remember which).

Very difficult situation, please take your time before deciding what to do, giving yourself a few days will not do any harm.

If you are telling the mum you could enable the abuse to continue, but be covered up.

You should think first and foremost about helping the child.

It's not normal behaviour - I'd be very worried that something horrible is happening to one or both of those children, and that the mother might be complicit if it's an ongoing issue.

onemissing. As someone who has had to speak to a parent about a problem. DONT!

Go straight to the NSPCC.

Otherwise everytime they see you they will assume you are watching them and judging them. It will completly destroy your relationship and it will not have helped to resolve the issue anyway.

As hard as it may seem to do, you have a degree of responsibilty because of what you have overheard and your knowledge of the situation.

Call ss/nspcc make sure they are doing something about it and have a clear consience whilst still being in a position to observe.

This is a situation that is unlikely to improve if left....

Problem is MDS, that if onemissing is no longer friends with the mother she will not know whether the family is being helped. Sometimes ss mess up, (i'm being kind to them) and sometimes children fall through the cracks in the system.

If onem is still friends with the family she will at least know if things are ok....

Sorry, this is so obviously some weirdo. Why would you post something so explicit on a site like this.

sykes, I think you're off the mark. things like this do happen and when they do it can be difficult to work out how best to deal with it.

OP, NSPCC are the best to approach for advice, I think.

My concern about approaching the mother would be not only her heavy handedness () but also that she is already aware of her sons issues but has still failed to ensure the safety of her daughter.

It strikes me that there's an element of denial, in which case approaching her directly could be completely ineffective.

erm, to get advice sykes. Seems legit to me and no-one has appeared after 6 posts shouting "boxroom" theres plenty of troll hunters about and there have been previous threads in the past with a similar content.

Lets face it. If you tke it all at face value, what would you do in the same situation?

The whole concept of ringing s/s seems to be as daunting as dialling 999 to some people. I've been in situations before where a toddler has had a head injury and collapsed and someone has said "do we really need to call an ambulance? Shouldn't we ring the GP / NHS Direct"?

Its not a common situation (thankfully) but its one where you need to take the appropriate action. Fast.

No-one wants to make a big fuss and find out they were wrong, that too could be bad for the family, but to do nothing could be terible for the little girl.

sorry for typos

do you think this is 'some weirdo'?
omg i really am troubled by this post and will not be drawn into a debate but if is serious, and i didn't suspect until i read sykes then something has to be said.

a boy of ten does def understand sex in general terms if not specifics. if they did 17 years ago when i was 10 and had first 'bf' then they definately do now

the worrying part is the conjecture that he is acting out sexual thoughts with his 5yo sister. yes, it could be he is being abused, it could be he is on his way (albeit without realising) to become an abuser or it could just be inquisitiveness

i would get SS or HV advice asap because if something (god forbid should happen and you could've said something....)

i would not approach parents though.

i really hope that sykes is right and you are a weirdo but in reality the sweeping of things under the carpet is what leads to abuse.

onemissing do you know anyone who works in a school/hv/social services etc?
I have a good friend who is a social worker so I feel confident in asking her opinion and she is great at deciding when to put on her social worker hat so to speak and when it's not necessary.
If you feel you have a good relationship with a health visitor or similar could you chat to them and get some advice.
I can see that you want to help and support your friend and don't want to loose your friendship, but I guess it would be worth it if this kid got some help?

I agree with other posters - you should talk to NSPCC and not the family. My friend was abused by her older brother for years from the time she was about eight or nine (and he is only a few years' older so actually a smaller gap in age doesn't mean it's harmless or consensual) and it has been a long slog for her to recover from it

onemissing does not strike me as a troll

I am an ex social worker. Go direct to children's social care - social services OR NSPCC helpline for advice. Wouldn't go to parent as they may be part of the problem.

'Please be the person who cares enough to protect them'

Great way of putting it. So many people turn a blind eye to things and sometimes these can end in tragedy. It MAY be nothing but a trained professional can make that judgement in an objective way.