To think that a Doctor shouldn't be telling a woman with PND that she shouldn't have more children as she clearly can't cope!!!!

[memoo]

I am so cross about this!!!

I have been suffering with PND and Anxiety since the birth of my DD 5 months ago. I have been very ill with it but I'm slowly getting better with help from my GP and a lot of support from DH.

I have just been to the doctors this morning to get my prescription for my Anti-depressants. Had to see a different GP as my usual one wasn't available.

The doctor asked me quite casually if I was planning on having more children in the future. I said that I wasn't and he replied that is was for the best as I "am clearly stuggling to cope with the ones I already have"!!!!

Now I may be depressed but my children are all loved and well looked after. By the time DH gets home from work they are all fed, bathed/shower, homework done etc. I am also managing to keep on top of the housework. Basically I AM coping!!! In fact I think I am coping very well considering that I am also battling mental illness!!

Being mentally ill doesn't mean I am a bad mum, but thats how he made me feel!!!!

oh, those sweats will get better, memoo! been there.

LEM since having DCs I have started talking to myself out loud in supermarkets, whether they're with me or not. Shall we get some beans, let's get some beans, shall we get the blue ones or the brown ones, look there are one two three four tins in that pack shall we get that one? Do you want to pick it up? Mummy help? etc
Not so bad with a toddler in the trolley, highly embarrassing without, or when DD was weeks old and fast asleep

I can see where 2rebecca is coming from. Logically it doesn't make sense to go ahead and deliberately have more DC if you are already suffering from PND. Someone I know is going through this just now, and second time round her PND is even worse (to the point of suicidal ideation). It's hard enough with one child when you are unwell with any illness, let alone adding more to the mix.

No I'm not a psychiatrist, GP or psychologist but I have worked in the NHS with various clientele (including those with mental health issues) so I do have an idea how it all works even if I haven't personally suffered from PND.

he was tactless and inappropriate to comment on your parenting, given that he is not your GP. But if you struggle with PND then I would think having more children is madness. Not fair on them.

"But if you struggle with PND then I would think having more children is madness. Not fair on them."

totally agree with this statement Highlander

i didn't have PND but was very,very low with Ds1. I was terrified to go out of the apartment just in case he kicked off ( he had colic)

with DS2 (who was a dream baby) DS1 was going through the terrible twos, but I was exhausted, DH worked long hours and I was just horrible to DS1.

Never again - knoiwing what I'm like with a new baby, i would never put myself or my children through all that again (and I have harboured romantic notions of having a boy gaang )

it's tough isn't it? and for most women they'll stop having DC if they can't cope with what they already have, otherwise you're setting yourself up as some kind of martyr. It's not fair on the DC already in the world.

I won't be having any more DC after this pg. Once DS2 arrives (like yourself Highlander!) that's me done. I'm not sure I can go through the baby stage again. Already dreading those sleepless nights just around the corner! I'm not great with the baby stage, prefer the toddlerhood bit.

Her parents are not healthcare professionals treating her condition.

thesecondcoming I see your POV aswell. my parents have been quick to tell me I shouldn't have another child (and that's without having PND!) so I'd dread to think what they'd say if I was ill..yet I'd take their advice on board.

the thing is when you say something that goes against the grain on a thread, you are flamed for it esp if it's seen as something negative.

flamed?nah.there is no grain,just opinion.differences occur but that makes it lively.trick is not getting hump if disagreed with

'the thing is when you say something that goes against the grain on a thread, you are flamed for it esp if it's seen as something negative. '

Or you just fail to read peoples' post and assume what you want to hear about them, because if you had read them you'd see people were saying the GP acted unprofessionally and inappropriately with regards to this comment, nothing about being 'negatvie' or 'against the grain'.

This is starting to remind me of a bumper sticker I used to see on cars: If you think education is expensive, try ignorance!

there is no grain.dont be a conspiracy theorist

yes expat, that's other people's opinion that the GP acted unprofessionally and inappropriately with regards to the comment. not all of us see that as being the problem though, hence the difference of opinion.

FWIW I think it's blardy rude of the GP, and could have been better put, but that it was probably well meant. I would not have more children in your position, at least not until I had found a better equilibrium and was able to enjoy it more. I am sure your kids are well looked after but it sounds as though it takes a heavy toll on you, and you matter as well in this IMO. Kids are great, but they are not the be-all and end-all, and sometimes we have to attend to our own happiness and comfort.

well said boffinmum

I am gobsmacked at the utter ignorance on this thread. You have been told by more than one poster that PND doesn't necessarily affect your ability to be a good and loving parent. But you refuse to accept that? Why? What qualifies you to judge? Yet you say that its not fair on the children to have more if you have suffered PND, as I said, utter ignorance - and im honestly surprised at you, on this forum where PND is openly discussed and sufferers are supported.

Yes, some people who have suffered PND decide for themselves that they can't go through that again, but that is a personal decision and not one any woman who has suffered from PND will take lightly. I dont intend to have more children, but nothing to do with PND, if i wanted more i woldnt let having PND stop me, i had exacerbating circs, but would go into it knowing it could recurr and wary of the warning signs - therefore able to take action before it got to the not coping stage, not that it ever got to that stage for me.

It is totally reasonable to want more than one child if thats what your family ideal is - how very cruel to say a woman with mental illness sholdnt have children

LEM seems to be twisting other posters words now....

I think what others like myself are saying is it seems illogical to go ahead and have more children if you are struggling to cope with your own difficulties in life, plus looking after children and then going on to have more. why put yourself through so much? give yourself a break, enjoy your life and try and improve your health first before embarking on expanding your family. No one has ever said never never have any more DC, what people are getting at here is that you should maybe stall this (for those who are at the severe end of PND) until you are mentally feeling well again. No one is having a go at those with PND, it could happen to anyone fgs!!

good example thesecondcoming

"By Highlander Sat 06-Mar-10 20:09:33
he was tactless and inappropriate to comment on your parenting, given that he is not your GP. But if you struggle with PND then I would think having more children is madness. Not fair on them. " I'm not twisting anything.

I just object to the whole one rule fits all attitude. PND affects people in different ways - there will be those so badly affected that it would probably prevent them from wanting more children, but for some it is managable, thankfully, for most, with the right treatment, its is a managable illness. I doubt that anyone who was still having PND would consider having another baby until they were stable, for one thing those women would potentially still be on ADs and that is not ideal for TTC.

But the doctor in the OP implied that the OP shold have no more children because she can't cope with the ones she has. The advice i would expect from my doctor if i intended on TTC again would be to keep in touch with the HCPs and monitor monitor monitor. Of course you should try and wait til you are mentally well again before you TTC, but actual PND is just that Post Natal - it tends not to last forever. Of course there are other mental illnesses, general depression - what about someone who suffers with depression, bi-polar etc - should those people not have children either? Obviously if you have an uncontrolled mental illness then having children would be ill advised but that is not what is being discussed here.

I'm a mental health professional working in CAMHS. I do believe there are different levels of coping. The outward coping which mant women with pnd seem to do so well (in fact an obsession with perfectioninsm) is often at conflict with the inner despair, dead feeling and intense all consuming anxiety. I speak as a Mother who has pnd with her first. It took me 2 years to "cope" with what had happened, but my house was clean, I was working, dd was loved, fed nurtured, played with, by a mother who was crippled with anger and despair, feelings of unreality and a sense of being in a play of my own life rather than my actual life. TBH despite my Oscar winning acting performance bourne out of love for my dd and HAVING TO BE PERFECT it did affect my attachment with dd which unfortunately, although much better is still in evidence to this day.

However after 2 years I actually began to feel myself again and had another baby. I felt myself "slipping" after xmas when he was 3 months old so I put safe guards in place to prevent the same thing happening with ds, stopping bf, getting more sleep etc. PND has been averted this time but I know 100% it would be a risk to me and my family if I were to have another baby so I won't do it ever again. I love ds to bits but I don't enjoy looking after babies, I prefer it when they're older, it exacerbates my chronic insomnia, I hate the entrapment of bf and I struggle to cope with not being "perfect", I feel bored and isolated and miss adult company.

So in summary I'm afraid I don't think the GP was out of line, I think they have a valid if somewhat clumsily delivered point. GPs aren't therapists though, they have a few minutes to deal with huge issues. In my job (CAMHS) we have hours!

The hard cold facts are (and I don't mean the OP when I say this) is that many many families go on to have more dcs when they can't cope for whatever reason and it's not always beneficial for the children they already have. Be it emotional, financial, practical adversity a lot of people feel broody and "go for it" and it's not the best choice for their families. It puts huge strain on them.

PND can affect attachment. And no matter how perfect a Mum you are, you can't fake it to a baby, that's just how it is.

minx, that is exactly how i was - i even started going to church!!! BIt i do have to say, i never had any problems with attachment (that i am aware of at least) and DD and I have a close and loving relationship. Interestingly, i did have attachment issues with DD1 - long time ago, as i say huge age gap - i was a young mum, and i guessed that was the reason. Although interestingly, i used to worry bout DD1 dying - so i almost withdrew (oh god, reading that now makes me so sad - i should have spoken to someone about it ) I had the same irrational fears about DD2 (and me) but because i think i was aware of this happening with DD1 i stopped myself from taking that step back - of not allowing myself to get too close.

I often wonder, and im a bit loathe to say this, but as you have raised the BF i will ask your opinion - but i do wonder if BF exacerbates PND? I only say this because seratonin is very closely tied in with prolactin production in the brain and i always remember feeling very "low" during "let down" almost melancholy - tht was with both my children. That feeling was momentary though iyswim I have never read of any connection between BF and PND and would never suggest there was a link, but i do wonder if there has ever been any research on it?

TSC - of course i would agree that anyone in the throes of PND or any other form of mental illness would be ill advised to have a child at that particular time, but htat is not how i understood the doctor to have commented to the OP. If he indeed did say what he said in those terms, he needs to have some more training in mental health imo and memoo should complain

minxofmancunia could you look at my post on pg3?

do you think there is big difference between pnd and my kinda long haul 'clinical deppression'? (meaning no off to anyone with pnd this btw)

finding this thread really interesting