Is my dh being unreasonable to not one to serve a b/feeding mother at the counter???

[twotimes]

Twas talking to the dh this morning when he brought up an incident that happened in work the other day. He was working in a a well known mobile phone shop behind the counter when a woman came in with her daughter and her three kids. Both the women were at the counter discussing mobile options with dh whilst two of the children were running around the shop. All of a sudden mid conversation dh turned to get a phone and when he had turned back the daughter had whopped them out and started b/feeding. And he hasten's to add - with absolutely no modesty, just in her full glory. I should note, the baby was *not8 crying or making a sound before hand. Was he being unreasonable to be mortified??????

Now this isn't completely serious, he wasn't rude, he just carried on serving but felt the need to tell me about it later. He isn't a prude, I b/fed both dc's and all his family b/feed that isn't the issue. What he keeps going on about, is that "she didn't even cover".

At first I just pissed my self laughing (I could literally imagine his face) but then I thought seriously, people should be able to b/feed but at a counter in a shop, with no discretion?

Most women in the UK cover up when breastfeeding because they are embarrassed about it and don't want other people to see what they're doing.

And that's because in the UK breastfeeding is seen as an intrinsically indecent act. Like going to the toilet or picking your nose.

This widespread pre-occupation with discretion, even though it's understandable (given our cultural neurosis about breastfeeding) is IMHO damaging to breastfeeding at a wider level because it perpetuates the view that breastfeeding is somehow shameful.

And in a very practical sense it's hugely disadvantageous that the vast majority of new mothers have NEVER even seen a baby properly latched on at the breast before they start to try to breastfeed their own child. These types of mothering skills are learned in a very unselfconscious way by women in cultures where breastfeeding is normal - they are exposed to the sight of babies feeding at the breast over and over again throughout their childhood and in adult life. They grow up just 'knowing' what normal breastfeeding looks like. We don't, which is why so many of us struggle with it here - it's an alien act for us.

(thinking about last night, talking to a pregnant friend who was saying that her African partner's mother had been completely mystified when she explained she was going to a breastfeeding class. Couldn't believe that women need to be taught how to breastfeed - surely they just know!

Don't people choose to cover up not because its shameful but because its private and if they dont want strangers to see their tits then THAT'S THEIR CHOICE!

"Breasts are sexual organs. Maybe some of you are too busy bf-ing to remember that "

I can assure you that no woman in Lagos or Accra or Kinshasa or wherever will be breastfeeding at the counter in Carphone warehouse @ Tittybangbang.

BF-ing might be natural, normal and a completely accepted part of life in African families, but women do not whop'em out in the bank.

Don't idealise the situation.

"and if they dont want strangers to see their tits then THAT'S THEIR CHOICE!"

Yes - of course it is. But if these personal choices have wider ramifications for women and for babies then I think we've got a right to point that out.

I mean - I agree that women should feel free to wear a full face veil niqab but I think the fact that in some cultures so many women choose to do so has implications for other women in those societies who don't wish to cover their faces.

The fact that it's the cultural norm for women to be discrete (to the point of invisibility) about breastfeeding in the UK will make it very difficult for breastfeeding advocates to challenge the public unease about and prejudice towards the practice of feeding babies on their mothers milk.

Do you not also take the point I'm making about the invisibility of breastfeeding damaging women's ability to breastfeed at a fundamental level?

What's it like in Venezuela then tweedy?

Here's a pic of the president meeting flood victims

here

Tweedyneecole - I lived in Africa for several years and I have clear memories of seeing women openly breastfeeding EVERYWHERE, in the city and in rural areas.

Can you imagine the tabloid response to anyone standing in front of Gordon Brown while feeding their baby with a breast out like that..

OT, but look what I stumbled across while googling....... yikes!

But rather lovely strangely!

"the invisibility of breastfeeding damaging women's ability to breastfeed at a fundamental level" tittybangbang, no it isn't. I mean breastfeeding class? not sure about that but I'd never seen anyone breastfeeding I don't even think I would have paid any attention, I certainly would not have sat there learning. I learnt when I gave birth (unfortunately I had to express for the first few days) but when it was time, the problem I had was I couldn't get ds to latch on even with my mom and mil offering advice. Eventually it was the nurse who launched my ds and managed to get him on and I went from there. If I'm right (feel free to correct me if I'm not) but most women's problem when first b/feeding is learning how to get the child to latch on (certainly was my first problem). Watching people merrily b/feeding isn't going to stop this, you can't learn it until you have a child ready to latch on to your breasts.

Also, I think nowadays the pressure is on if you want to bottle feed not b/feed. B/feeding doesn't always work out for everybody and the stigma of having to "give" up when it isn't going well is pressure in itself.

Please tell me your joking being sarcastic or whatever tbb . If it was a baby there suckling a goat would you say that was lovely. I mean just why would you do that? I think i just threw up a little in my mouth

@ twotimes, lots of babies suckle cows' milk, just from a bottle. Still the same thing Interspecies feeding does happen, you know

Oh dear Badgardener . Good for your dh to carry on serving and YANBU for him to be a bit embarrassed of the mum showing a bit too much boob. I love those hooter hiders and will be investing in one if i have a dc2 and bf, especially since i have heard about the bf mother being told to leave the bus as she was bf.

How much flesh does a woman expose BF in Islamic dress? I imagine that she doesn't hoik it up at the foot-reaching hem or flop out a breast from over her top. If it's being discreet we're talking about, isn't the niqab a bit of a red herring?

"Watching people merrily b/feeding isn't going to stop this, you can't learn it until you have a child ready to latch on to your breasts"

You don't really understand what I'm saying. Actually we do learn by watching - subconsciously. Just basic things like knowing not to push on the back of your baby's head, and not to hold the baby too far across your body into the crook of your arm, and to angle your baby in towards your body.

I've observed quite a few bf classes where bf counsellors have handed around dolls to parents and ask them to hold it as if they're breastfeeding. It's very common for women to hold their baby as if they're bottlefeeding with their breast (ie, on its back with its head in the crook of their arm and its mouth instead of its nose lined up with the nipple). If you'e only ever seen a biraby with a bottle teat in its mouth how are you to know your baby's mouth should be wide open when breastfeeding, with their chin pressed into your breast? How would you know about different holds like putting the baby under your arm, or lying back and feeding if you've never seen anyone else do it?

Also, I think nowadays the pressure is on if you want to bottle feed not b/feed".

There are communities in the UK with initiation of bf rates of less than 30% (mainly working class white communities), so clearly there are groups who feel very little pressure to breastfeed. And the majority of the rest have stopped by 3 weeks postpartum anyway, most completley unnecessarily (in physiological terms0. I'd say that's probably more important than women feeling pressured to continue breastfeeding.

Oh bugger, I've completely missed tittybangbang's point, haven't I?

"How much flesh does a woman expose BF in Islamic dress? I imagine that she doesn't hoik it up at the foot-reaching hem or flop out a breast from over her top."

There's a great picture in Gabrielle Palmer's 'Politics of Breastfeeding' of a veiled Egyptian woman doing just that - 'whopping out' a whole naked breast to feed her baby in the street!

So many people seem unable to see that theirs is only one valid opinion on a spectrum.

porca going on and on about not offending others. Well where do you draw the line? Some people offended by doing it in Carphone Warehouse, some people offended by you doing it at all. You're always going to offend someone, can't you appreciate that the line you have drawn in personal to you and arbitrary in nature, meaning little to anyone else? Or do you expect the whole world to dance to your tune.

tweedy accusing someone of idealising it and saying that in Africa and such they don't wop it out at the bank, when personal experience of others disagrees and photo evidence says otherwise.

TSC with your private tits..well good for you, but not everyone agrees. If a page 3 girl is acceptable then so is showing as much as necessary in order to feed a baby, whatever that is for you.

Scores of posters banging on about being discrete. Its just one more way of controlling us as women, IMO, you're allowed to do it if you are careful, don't make people uncomfortable with your body, hide your shame......

It's discreet not discrete

Yes because spelling is the most important subject at hand here.

If you want to be really arsey pedantic about it then; the adjective discreet means "tactful" or "prudent self-restraint." Discrete means "distinct" or "separate.

I think people may be using the word as in the former, but may actually mean the latter. You want me to hide in a corner or use a hooter hider, that seems to me you want me to be seperate and distinct from you. And the words are from the same latin root meaning to keep apart.

Being discreet isn't about being controlled by men or being ashamed about our bodies.

Being discreet is knowing how to live in a society where everyone has different views and where certain things risk making others uncomfortable or else are just plain inappropriate. If you do what you want regardless of others then that's your choice but other people like me prefer not to go out of their way to push BFing in people's faces but just get on with it without making a fuss. That doesn't undermine the BFing campaigns and make it harder for women to BF in public and nor does it mean that we are ashamed of BFing, we just like our breasts to be for our baby, our lovers and ourselves, not some random bloke sitting trying to have a cappuccino in peace or sell us a mobile phone.

displayuntilbestbefore, I think you need Pedants Corner.