breast is best

[Haitch27]

Is anyone else who is pregnant sick to the back bloody teeth of the 'breast is best' campaign being shoved down your throat everywhere you turn and being badgered by health carers to attend breastfeeding 'workshops'?? Maybe its just where I live but it seems to be everywhere yet the one thing no one says is "are you planning to breastfeed"? Assumption that all Mums will!!
Curious to know as I said if it is just my area or is it everywhere?

"I'd want to point out that most babies try to breastfeed, and it's their mothers that stop them by barring access to their breasts and giving an inferior substitute instead."

Do you have any evidence to back this up? I am struggling to see how this could possibly be measured, nor is it something I am aware of any of my three babies trying to do.

Completely agree with Coffee's point that bf, whilst I am sure has many advantages, is not the be-all and end-all to children's health and wellbeing. I am very happy with the choice I made (not to bf), but should I have decided to bf I certainly wouldn't be using it as a prop to my ego (don't need one) or as a stick to beat those who didn't, any more than I would any other choice I made.

I am going to go out on a limb here and say what worries me FAR more is the choices mothers make at weaning and beyond.

I can't believe that the health margin between bfed and ffed babies is bigger than the margin between babies weaned on a lovely organic balanced diet and babies weaned onto chocolate pudding and crisps and never given a change to develop healthy habits.

That's where I would be putting all my resources, support and training and posters if I were the government.

Also my dd was a bit lazy she did not want to work at getting milk from my breast, when we put her on formula we had to make a big hole in the teat so that it would just go into her mouth without her sucking. Even now if there is a bit of food that requires a more chewing than she is prepared to do than she will not have it.

No its not the be all and end all Lady not at all, and people should not be made to feel bad whatever method of feeding they choose. Bf children can also get ill and sick and are not immune, i was on formula and i touch wood
feel that I am fit and healthy and others that i know too.

I agree coffeeaddict. Although obviously the first 6 months/year are obviously hugely important in terms of growth and development, they are such a tiny proportion of a person's life that I cannot believe BF is more important than a healthy diet in childhood and then throughout life.

ladyt - although i agree with your point about bf not being be all and end all.......bf IS something to be proud of! and as to whether is a stick...this is a debate about bf campaigns and most mners know that bf/ff debate where tempers run high - if you don't want to debate then dont!

I do want to debate, but unfortunately for you 'debate' does not mean 'fall immediately in line with your point of view' and any mother who wants to castigate other mothers for their feeding choices (or indeed any choices) should take a long, hard look at themselves.

By Allidon Mon 15-Feb-10 17:50:47
"I'd want to point out that most babies try to breastfeed, and it's their mothers that stop them by barring access to their breasts and giving an inferior substitute instead."

Do you have any evidence to back this up? I am struggling to see how this could possibly be measured, nor is it something I am aware of any of my three babies trying to do.

Thank you for that Ruby, I had heard of breast crawl but it was fascinating to see it actually happening.

However, my post to StandandDeliver was questionning her claim that "most babies try to breastfeed" and FF mothers stop this. Surely if you were planning to FF, you would not hold them in such a position as to offer them the chance to breast crawl iyswim? So these babies would not, in fact, try to breast feed. Mine certainly didn't, they were delivered straight onto my chest without being cleaned, then checked, weighed etc, wrapped in a towel and held for about half an hour before being offered a bottle feed.

I would like to see statistics to prove StandandDeliver's claim that most babies try to BF, however I think her statement was designed to be an emotive and veiled attack on mothers who choose to FF, rather than anything that can be measured.

I've just misread pigletmania's post and thought the bit about putting ' a hole in the teat' referred to a natural breast...I'm still wincing..

Apart from that I'm saying nowt. bf and natural child birth - the slightest dissension and you are the work of the devil. These truly are the topics the MN bullies circle around...

I am very pro breast feeding. I was gutted when I was unable to carry on feeding my 1st child. I think posters like the one the OP saw would have tipped me over the edge. I did successfully breast feed my 2nd child for 8 months. However, I do firmly believe if up to the individual to choose.

I am just responding to a question from happyseven's post from yesterday. Yes, the content of breastmilk varies depending on the diet of the mother. Research done into breastmilk content in cultures with limited food choices demonstrated that the levels of long chain fatty acid was different in societies that cooked with certain cooking oils rather than others - the type of oil was important because the societies had limited access to fats. Obviously the levels of long chain fatty acids is important for brain development and eye function.

Access to clean water for babies of certain ages and in certain climates is also important or babies will drink foremilk and move to the other breast for more foremilk to quench their thirst, and as a consequence drink less of the hindmilk which contains more fat.

I don't think such studies have much bearing on comparing formula to breastmilk because a lot of the benefits of breastmilk are much more general than variations in its composition.

allidon, if your dcs had continued with skin to skin for up to 90minutes, nature dictates that they would have rooted for the breast and breastfed. I don't think standanddeliver's post was a veiled attack - its simply nature's way of ensuring breastfeeding happens.

Some personal comments on this thread.

I breastfed one of my children to 19 months and one to 27 months. We are advised by the WHO to bf for at least 2 years, and if everybody followed that then I would have viewed stopping at 19 months as bad and no doubt carried on a bit longer. So I do think that the culture around us influences our choices.

Despite being pro-breastfeeding, I am horrified by the nastiness on this thread, although it has calmed down a bit since Sunday. I haven't really contributed to a bf/ff thread before and I am not sure I would again, because I think some people are going to be really distressed on reading some of the nasty comments made on this thread.

My point is though that (I would think) most women who intend to FF would not do that. Standanddeliver's post invoked images of women ripping their baby from the breast and forcing teats into their mouths instead, which is quite unfair really. Perhaps it could be argued that I prevented my babies from having that chance to breast feed in the first place, but I certainly didn't put them in the position of trying to latch on and then preventing them, which is what I took Standanddeliver's post to mean.

Thanks SoH that raises a lot of very interesting questions!

One of the point in there was "A third of all mothers were giving drinks in addition to breast or formula milk by four weeks. This had risen to two thirds by four months."

The questions they ask would be interesting, as well as a better look at the stats. Personally I would say that the other stats including women who are mixed feeding would give a more rounded picture than the exclusive ones.

If you go by a very strict exclusive feeding definition then I don't think I know anyone who BF. For example I BF DD1 for 14 months - but I wouldn't show in those stats as I tries her with some formula once - she only took a tiny bit and I never tried again but that would be me out. Ditto DD2 who I gave some water in a tommee tippee the other day to let her have a try.

Also my friends who have introduced one bottle of formula a day from birth and others who occasionally used formula when they went out.

Bascically I think that the exclusive BF stats give a very pessimistic view of what is actually happening.

If you look at 75% of women are starting out trying to BF then that is not a dire tale of woe. The message is obviously getting through. Where it is dropping away I would say is down to support postnatally.

The other 25% should be identified and targetted (as per little stars) - I would wonder whether there is crossover with the 1/3 of mothers feeding new babies drinks other than milk or formula. If so, then there is wider and more comprehensive education required for that sub-group of people.

fair point allidon, so would you suggest that it is better to not even offer the breast, rather than breastfeed and then stop?

Good post millyR.

I have been at some of the things said on here as well. I sometimes wonder if people really think before they post, of people who might be lurking, or feeling vulnerable, and how they might take it all.

Belissima we put a hole in the teat so that she would get more milk as dd was quite lazy in sucking, that at that moment in time was what we felt right. Whats this about natural breast Belissima i am confused. Yes dd also found bf hard as she was a little lazy and did not like to work for her food hence the hole in teat when we gave her formula. I would have still done the same thing with the teat if i had enought milk to express. Even now if a food requires more chewing than she is prepared to do, she will not have it.

Belissima why are you wincing it did the trick and she took the milk from the bottle and learnt to suck in time a bit more. When i phoned up the NCT when i found i was pg again they were so helpful and did suggest the biological nurturing position which sounds really good and would love to try, unfortunately i had a m/c but will definitely try that position and tell my midwife and birth plan if we have another dc, we are ttc

sorry, my last post was implying such bollox - every breastfeed counts and all that!

re the breast crawl - i had dd by a terrifying emergency c section. when they took me back up to the ward dd was placed on my chest for skin to skin. she immediately started sucking on my collar bone.

re recent comments - agree that many mothers need to be educated about not supplementing bm with anything as this is detrimental to continuing feeding but the cynic in me wonders whether its an excuse to stop (sorry) with that in mind maybe i agree more with other posters who thought that ongoing support for those who want to continue would be moneyt better spent

All i know that i would have loved to continue bf, for the short time i did i loved it, but there were various factors that i mentioned that put an abrupt end to it

It depends what your plans are I suppose. I think if you have no intention of breast feeding, then allowing the baby the chance to latch on and then immediately removing them is at best pointless, and at worst cruel, so yes in that situation it would be better (imo) not to give the baby the opportunity to do so.

OTOH, if you are unsure about BF, or are taking it on a feed by feed basis, then of course it is better to offer the baby that chance, and give them as many feeds as you feel able to.

piglet, that is , and your kind of situation could be happily avoided with better support, which the government should provide.