breast is best

[Haitch27]

Is anyone else who is pregnant sick to the back bloody teeth of the 'breast is best' campaign being shoved down your throat everywhere you turn and being badgered by health carers to attend breastfeeding 'workshops'?? Maybe its just where I live but it seems to be everywhere yet the one thing no one says is "are you planning to breastfeed"? Assumption that all Mums will!!
Curious to know as I said if it is just my area or is it everywhere?

YABU to post this in AIBU. I have "feeding" hidden but keep having to resist opening this one {failed emoticon]

This is an excellent thread because I found out about the existence of Lilypadz, no sleeping on towels this time.

Thanks Babieseverywhere!

Standanddeliver - I wasn't breastfed and I am most content with the way I have turned out, as I fully expect to be with my 14 month old DD and the child I am currently expecting.

PS - I strongly suspect that the choices you make about your childs life regarding nutrition, exercise, education, health etc have a bigger affect on their health and wellbeing in the long run than breast feeding vs bottle feeding (provided you have an ample supply of milk/clean drinking water)

Not really relevant but thought I'd throw it in...

downdog your post is quite interesting.

You cite women lying to you about why they didn't BF - that you have never met a woman who simply didn't want to, they all claim medical reasons. This pisses you off as it is dishonest.

The next thing you say is that women who don't BF are selfish and dishonest.

Does it occur to you that there may be a reason that people are lying to you? Maybe?

And that starting out from such a viewpoint is maybe not the best way to approach a problem of tackling poor BF rates in this country?

Your point "I'm so sick of people seeing pro breastfeeding campaigns as a personal attack on them" I assume means the people on here who are saying that the "breast is best" message has got out of hand in some areas. I wonder how that ties in with the fact that many of the people who agree with the OP are people who BF.

Also was trying to compose something in my head but is was basically what kewcumber said.

Downdog and its comments like this that the terms 'breastfeeding nazis or matrons' are used by some. Yes no wonder people dont tell you the truth, what would you say to them if they did . Yes there are genuine people on here that could not bf for medical reasons and had horrible births and very sick babies, what are you saying to them, that they are lying, its this attitude that does nothing to promote bf and put women off from it tbh.

I personally would have given anything to bf for much longer but could not as there were different factors involved such as:lack of support from HV/MW, me not doing my research beforehand, PND and extreme stress going on at the time, as well as outside influences. I felt that i had to do what i saw fit at that moment in time and do not appreciate comments telling me that i was lazy, dishonest and not caring about my babies health, gosh thats whey so many women who could not bf do feel guilt and sadness.

I agree about exercise Kewcumber! How many threads are there with different camps of women beating each other up about whether or not they force their DCs to go running round the block every day? That, like bfeeding, would be challenging, inconvenient, questioned by unsupportive friends and family and GOOD FOR THE CHILDREN, no question.

But we don't diss those who let their kids slump on the sofa or send exercise counsellors round. At least I've never come across one (Whereas I certainly have had the bfeeding message.) Why don't we?! When obesity and lack of fitness is such a problem - not just extreme cases but a general creeping rise in every sector.

I am sure bfeeding has advantages, as do many things in life. But I can't believe it's the be-all and end-all to children's health and wellbeing.

STIGALOID - what I don't understand is why you feel so bad about positive breastfeeding campaigns.

You and your daughter have clearly had a dreadful time, and it must be extremely difficult when you want to feed your baby and can't - let alone having a poorly baby. I'm not having a go at people who can't feed for medical reasons Or even those who choose not to feed.

But why oh why do you see pro-breast feeding campaigns, and breast is best posters as an attack on you or your child? Of course it isn't.

Clearly for the majority breast is best, clearly for you and your baby it wasn't.

I'm not saying you are lying - I am saying that I know several friends who didn't want to breast feed, (because they were embarrassed, worried about the effect on their breasts, too busy, found it gross - lots of different reasons) and who talked with me about it, but who publicaly said they had medical reasons for not feeding - when it was a lie. And I think this is common. They didn't want to breastfeed, though they all could have. A couple fed for 3 days, a couple for about 6 weeks, (others had no intention of even trying) then they stopped as soon as they felt they could 'decently' get away with it.

And I think it's a damn shame they didn't get over themselves & give it a proper go. Breastfeeding is one of the many challenges we will face as parents, and one that can potentially offer such benefits to baby & mother. Sure I felt it was difficult at times especially in the first few weeks, with silly small minds whispering when I might feed in a cafe or wherever, but to me, doing the best I could, with what I had, was what mattered to me. And most of all, I had an awareness of a culture of breastfeeding through NHS classes & pro-BF campaign(my Mum & sister never did it), and some wisdom from older women I knew, and I felt supported to stick with it and to get over any uncomfortable feelings society threw my way.

I'm really really glad I did - and I credit the pro-breastfeeding campaign for providing me with education, awareness & on-going support. It's not exactly a cheery pro baby-feeding world we live in so they have their work cut out.

I don't think I'm being smug. Why my positive breastfeeding experience should be a threat to anyone is beyond me.

But I am stick of non-breastfeeding mothers (for whatever reason) whining on and on about the personal attack they feel they are under by pro-breastfeeding campaigns. It's not all about you and no one is saying you are a bad person (except perhaps yourself and if that is the case then dig deep & ask why)!

downdog - i dont find breast is best campaign a personal attack - just an insensitive one - much like your post, which continues to be smug. i don't whine that i am under attack but i do find people harping on about breast feeding being best and those that dont do it are dishonest mothers etc to be, frankly, annoying. personally whatever is best for your baby is best. am glad you had a good time - are happy with your decision etc, but not everyone does have it easy so perhaps a little sensitivity wouldn't go amiss

I've just read this thread and Haitch27 I have to agree with you. Patronising posters and false ideals are not what women need.

My wife was always planning to breastfeed, but what we had been shown in parenting classes about how to feed for the first time - a nice quiet room where mum and baby could bond and feed in their own time - was totally different to reality after she'd given birth.

Just after birth we were told by the nurses that they needed to move us to make room for the next patient, but that they wanted to see a successful feed first. Then lots of midwifes and nurses intervened and tried to latch my just born son on in lots of different ways totally at odds to our plan of skin to skin bonding etc. Breast feeding became rushed and stressful and the unhelpful intrusion continued while my wife was in hospital.

To cut a long story short we had excellent help from a community midwife (once we were back home) after a very stressfull night where my son tried to feed constantly for about 13 hours. This midwife explained the difference between "seeking sucks" and swallowing sucks, and helped with posture etc. Things which had not really been covered in parenting classes.

When things are not working out as planned for a new mum, Breast is Best posters and similar are not helpful. To raise breastfeeding rates (among women who want to breastfeed) practical support will be much more effective than propaganda.

"I wasn't breastfed and I am most content with the way I have turned out, as I fully expect to be with my 14 month old DD and the child I am currently expecting".

I was put to sleep on my front, weaned at 9 weeks and given tea in my bottle. I'm fine and am perfectly happy with the way I turned out. Still think I would have been better off if my mum hadn't given me tea, had breastfed me for a bit longer and not weaned me so early, but it's difficult to quanitify how much or in what way. (and of course I'm still alive so being put to sleep on my front clearly didn't do me any significant harm!). Still, as a parent I want to do the best I can for my children to keep them safe and healthy!

"How many threads are there with different camps of women beating each other up about whether or not they force their DCs to go running round the block every day?"

Well - that's a bit of a crap point if you don't mind me saying so, comparing not breastfeeding to not forcing your kids to run round the block. But if you are going to use that analogy, I'd want to point out that most babies try to breastfeed, and it's their mothers that stop them by barring access to their breasts and giving an inferior substitute instead. That's more like stopping your kids from exercising out in the open air, even though that's what they're clamouring to do, and encouraging them to do star jumps in front of the telly, because it's more convenient for you to have them indoors. The end result is the same - generally happy, healthy kids, but indoor exercise is a less 'enriching' and satisfying experience for them.

Pigletmania - have to say I've come across lots of midwives who feel very strongly that large numbers of mums they care for look for excuses to give up breastfeeding. I think that's why they sometimes don't bother to try to hard to help women sort their difficulties out - they feel it's unwelcome as there are many people who don't want to be helped. I personally know many people who stopped because of relatively minor breastfeeding problems. Don't think these women are selfish or weak, they simply don't believe breastfeeding is worth the trouble - that it doesn't really make much difference to babies whether they're bf or ff.

moving on from how smug i am...

actually i think the point of the posters is to get prospective mothers who are surrounded by anti bf peer groups to consider bf.

again its about informed decisions. if you know bf is better but still choose to ff thats one thing but that is still an informed choice. if you ff because either you know nothing about bf/your mum tells you not to bother bf/your friends all ff/you are convinced by anti bf myths/etc etc

we have a bus that goes past our house about 8 times a day which is pink and covered in the pro bf campaign. i think its great and it makes me proud

standanddeliver - 'I'd want to point out that most babies try to breastfeed, and it's their mothers that stop them by barring access to their breasts and giving an inferior substitute instead' you are preaching to a convert here but still i'd not thought of it like that and that point made me feel sad. its true though - by denying bf you are denying your newborn baby's instincts :-(

sungirltan - you are much more eloquent and less smug than I. And you made you point in a much more sensitive and understanding way.
thank you

suntangirl do you agree that one to one conversations, targetting of information to certain groups and good support on the postnata wards would be more effective?

In general,

The problem I have with these posters and the current way the message is disseminated in my PCT, is that it is a scattergun approach.

Some women hear the info once and decide to BF. They don't need to be told teh exact same info another load of times. It gets on their nerves. This can be counterproductive.

Some women hear the info once and have concerns. There is no invitation for people to raise concerns in a non-judgey atmosphere (my point about people worrying about their sex ife if they Bf etc). So their concerns are not addressed.

Some women will hear the info and decide against. To persuade them to give it a try requires an individual and targetted approach.

What we have at the moment is a slew of posters and people robotically trotting out the party line, but with no real opportunity to engage for doubters and no real opportunity to pursuade for the unwilling.

The little star campaign at least sounds as if it is targetted. As for the rest of it - it's just same old same old and they wonder why it doesn't seem to do much.

Plus this fact that keeps coming up that loads of people do try to BF but stop quickly. I am sure that is down to lack of support on the wards and at home postnatally.

Just looked into it to see if I could find the figures for my London borough.

I found this:

"2.5 Breast feeding
In the first quarter 2006/07 almost 89.4 % of mothers initiated breastfeeding, compared to the
London average of 76.7% (Source: London Health Observatory)."

Neither of those numbers seem small to me. At all.

So it really does seem that it is maintaining feeding that is not happening.

Also found:

"The UK Infant Feeding Survey 2005 (Bolling et al. 2007) showed that 78% of women in England
breastfed their babies after birth. However, a third of these women had stopped by week 6 so that
only 50% of all new mothers were breastfeeding by week 6 and 26% by 6 months. For more details
of the Infant Feeding Survey, please see link.
www.ic.nhs.uk/pubs/breastfeed2005"

from here

That sounds like more than someone said earlier (but I can't be arsed to read the whole thread again!)

Oh yes it was near the beginning SoH posted:

""Overall, only 35 per cent of UK babies are being exclusively breastfed at one week, 21 per cent at six weeks, 7 per cent at four months and 3 per cent at five months.""

Those figures are wildly different, I wonder why. mine are from the DoH website

I have seen several women in this thread stating that they barely hear anything about feeding choices after telling their midwife in an antenatal appointment that they plan on breastfeeding. This makes sense - the have given the correct answer there haven't they!?

Has anyone said they wished to formula feed in an antenatal appointment and heard nothing more about it?

I think the NHS is fairly sure that preaching to the converted is a waste of time, hence the Star campaign, trying to target an audience not yet converted.

I'm also not aware of anyone having to endure a big long lecture 2 months into formula feeding for instance - milk supply would have long since dried up, hence no point really. Midwives TEND to concentrate on those who they feel could be swayed or who have made a hasty decision for misguided reasons. Or who hear hesitation in voices, etc. As a general rule. If you choose to formula feed, are steadfast in your decision and the reasons behind them, whatever they might be, and present a confident front, I cant see you getting all that much grief from anyone, be it NHS, NCT or general public...

I think it's the difference between feeding at all and feeding exclusively ISNT...

"Well - that's a bit of a crap point if you don't mind me saying so, comparing not breastfeeding to not forcing your kids to run round the block. But if you are going to use that analogy, I'd want to point out that most babies try to breastfeed, and it's their mothers that stop them by barring access to their breasts and giving an inferior substitute instead. That's more like stopping your kids from exercising out in the open air, even though that's what they're clamouring to do, and encouraging them to do star jumps in front of the telly, because it's more convenient for you to have them indoors. The end result is the same - generally happy, healthy kids, but indoor exercise is a less 'enriching' and satisfying experience for them."

No I don't mind you saying so. Really, you have reinforced what I thought! You are saying the marginal benefits of breastfeeding are equivalent to outdoor exercise over indoor star jumps. To me this is not nearly as worrying, as the truth for lots of kids is NO exercise or encouragement.

I think all kids want to run about just as all babies want to breastfeed and some are prevented from doing so to the extent that they 'learn' not to want to. Like babies 'learn' to crave a bottle.

Of course bfeeding is best and in an ideal world you'd have both, but when people start saying it costs the NHS zillions I wonder whether, big picture, other things are an even bigger problem/cost.

After all, this started off as a debate about NHS campaigns. Just looking at the broader health picture and raising questions. Sorry if this is a 'crap' thing to do!!!

PS have no axe to grind as bfed all three DC3.

Key facts bit, scroll down...

Standanddeliver i would have loved more help, before i gave birth i told my midwife how important bf was to me, mabey i should have done more research myself and seeked out support outside the NHS, I was a bit niave and unprepared tbh. If we do have a dc2 i will be doing more research and contacting various organisations. I am also doing my research now and very glad that i found MN, wish i had when i had dd.