breast is best

[Haitch27]

Is anyone else who is pregnant sick to the back bloody teeth of the 'breast is best' campaign being shoved down your throat everywhere you turn and being badgered by health carers to attend breastfeeding 'workshops'?? Maybe its just where I live but it seems to be everywhere yet the one thing no one says is "are you planning to breastfeed"? Assumption that all Mums will!!
Curious to know as I said if it is just my area or is it everywhere?

"One of my friends said that it made her feel ill at the idea of a baby on the breast, and a lot of women feel that way. My cousin was like that"

Very strong reaction...and a very valid one. The polar opposite of that I guess is what some others have already said on here and what I felt when I was in recovery with DS2. The woman in the bed next to me asked for a bottle of formula. Totally refused point blank to give the baby any colustrum whatsoever. I felt so incredibly sad about that. I wasn't judging, but that reaction is as valid and instinctive to some women as the response above.

I guess what I am trying to explain is that when some people are trying to position their views on breastfeeding, it is simply because they dont understand how it feels to feel so against breastfeeding. I know I dont judge (fundamentally, I dont really care how others feed their DC's), but equally I cannot put myself in the shoes of those who really dont want to.

"Oh, and the gastroenteritis point - this arises mainly when people aren't cleaning or sterilising the bottles properly - according to my obstetrician, anyway, and she really ought to know"

Most obstetricians know very little about breastfeeding, and are happy to admit this to be the case. They have very little training in supporting lactation.

You are right that poor hygiene is a big part of the problem when it comes to gastric illness in babies.

But it's more complex than that.

Iron has to be added to formula in larger quantities than is found in breastmilk (because it's less bio-available in formula) which makes for less healthy gut formula, which is why their nappies often smell so disgusting compared to the nappies of bf babies, and perhaps one of the reasons why they are more prone to constipation and vomiting. They are also deprived of the immunological benefits of breastmilk, which is has of antiviral and antibacterial elements (remembering that a good proportion of gastric illness is caused by viruses and not just bacteria).

It's also the case that an exhausted mother giving many bottles throughout the day and night to a new baby who is feeding little and often may quite understandably find it hard to ensure that the bottles are always completely spanking clean and that all undrunk milk is discarded promptly. Sometimes people lose track of things - god knows I've forgotten many a time which breast I've fed from or how long a baby had been feeding. It' s perfectly understandable that new parents sometimes make mistakes with making up bottles when they're bottle feeding.

Pigletmania - sorry about my rolling eye comment and huffiness on last post. You have expressed yourself in a very reasonable way. I'm just feeling a bit exasperated today!

Allidon - I feel very strongly that our poor breastfeeding rates need to be tackled from every angle - stopping formula advertising, improving the practices of hcp, making it possible for more women to have unmedicated, straightforward births (through upping the number of midwives and improving birth environments), educating school children about infant nutrition, making breastfeeding more culturally visible, protecting babies' right to breastfeed in law by making it illegal to ask a woman to stop breastfeeding.... many, many ways.

Well - my obs is a mother of two so is not a complete ignoramus about feeding issues. But I suspect she has considerable more knowledge about gastroenteritis in babies than you do (unless you tell me you are a world authority or specialist or are even doing a PhD in it or some such, in which case I stand corrected). So, I hope you won't mind if I take her word over yours.

Oh, and it's not that difficult to keep bottles clean and follow all the necessary hygiene steps. I managed fine, and I am delighted to tell you that my DD has avoided constipation and vomiting and viruses. Evidently she had a lucky escape

Well - my obs is a mother of two so is not a complete ignoramus about feeding issues. But I suspect she has considerable more knowledge about gastroenteritis in babies than you do (unless you tell me you are a world authority or specialist or are even doing a PhD in it or some such, in which case I stand corrected). So, I hope you won't mind if I take her word over yours (though actually you do concede that hygiene is a big problem regarding the cause of these gastric ills)

Oh, and it's not that difficult to keep bottles clean and follow all the necessary hygiene steps. I managed fine, and I am delighted to tell you that my DD has avoided constipation and vomiting and viruses. Evidently she had a lucky escape

"But I suspect she has considerable more knowledge about gastroenteritis in babies than you do"

Breastfeeding counsellors spend at least two years training in infant feeding issues.

And they've all bf a baby for at least 6 months, most considerably longer.

I'm only a trainee and haven't studied for the full two years. But I'd bet my bottom dollar that I've done more formal study on infant feeding and have more personal experience of breastfeeding than your average obstetrician!

I corrected my post and it posted twice - not really sure how that happened...

"Oh, and it's not that difficult to keep bottles clean and follow all the necessary hygiene steps. I managed fine"

Yes. For you.

But clearly not for everyone, which is why 5 times as many bottle fed babies are admitted to hospital with gastric illness than exclusively bf babies.

Well, I was actually just talking about obs consultant, I wouldn't really like to generalise for the rest of them. But you obviously consider yourself a sage on all feeding matters so, er, not much I can say to that really....

" if we ALL smoke or drink too much we can expect to get lung damage and liver disease, but not everyone will get disease as a result of ff "
pigletmania, that is completely wrong! If you smoke and drink loads you are stil only increasing the risks, not guaranteeing ill health, same as ff.
disclaimer: not saying the 'risks' of ff are the same as the risks of drinkin/smoking. Still expect someone to indignantly misinterpret me though.

Yes - that's a good point - it's a shame that people aren't given more information about the ins and outs of ff, if that's what they want to do. It's a simple matter of impressing on people the need for hygiene with these bottles and going through what this exactly means. Perhaps that would have a huge effect on the percentages of gastric illness. But perhaps the midwives are too busy tut-tutting that these woman don't want to bf, who knows?

Sorry STandanddeliver I am dyslexic and do find it so hard to express myself in an adequate way. I know what i want to say, but how to say it can be a bit

"Allidon - I feel very strongly that our poor breastfeeding rates need to be tackled from every angle - stopping formula advertising, improving the practices of hcp, making it possible for more women to have unmedicated, straightforward births (through upping the number of midwives and improving birth environments), educating school children about infant nutrition, making breastfeeding more culturally visible, protecting babies' right to breastfeed in law by making it illegal to ask a woman to stop breastfeeding.... many, many ways."

I do agree with several of your points here, but I still think the most productive thing that could be done is to increase post natal support (is this what you meant by improving practices of HCPs?). It's all very well increasing initiation rates, but it really is worthless if only 35% of women are currently successfully BF at one week. And all that will happen is those 65% who aren't successful will further spread the bad stories surrounding BF, that it's difficult, it hurts etc, which helps no one. If 75% of women are currently initiating BF, and that 75% are successful, that's a significant number of women which will raise the cultural visability and promote BF all by itself, through people seeing mothers BF in public, those mothers talking about BF to friends and family, supporting them if they choose to BF. (I apologise if the figures are wrong, but they are really just to illustrate the point).

As an aside, I thought it already was illegal to stop a woman BF in a public place? It is here anyway (Scotland).

In conclusion, I do believe that a woman has a right to choose which way they feed and should not be made to feel bad about it, there is a thread on the Breast/bottle website about a petition to the PM to make formula only available on prescription, with the mum having to justify using it to the GP, which is wrong and does nothing to promote bf. There have been a couple of comments on here much further back from people that are negative to mums who could not bf which is also wrong and unhelpful.

However I also believe that whilst formula is a good substitute it will never be as good as breastmilk which is tailor made for each individual baby and that MW could encourage mums to try bf or to express even if it is to get the colostrum, but should respect the mums decision if they do not wish to. I think the way to go instead of the 'breast is best' campaign is the 'every bf counts' which is a more non invasive way of promoting bf imo, and that encouraging the mum to do that first feed could encourage them to continue bf.

I agree with all of that post, Piglet.

its not just ur area its everywhere taking over!!! i was asked at my 8 week appointment with dd if i was planning on breastfeeding, thought it was a joke asking so early, (at the time i said hadnt given it alot of thought )
when i later decided 'bottle was best' for my baby i felt very looked down on from midwife as tho i should at least try
another bug bear is clients (iam a hairdresser) or anyone general public etc, that ram bf down ur throat, funny enough there chat usually starts with ...in my nct class etc hhaha divs

It may be sad to see a rooting baby given a bottle rather than the breast. (an earlier post)

I found it very sad when my big (10lb) newborn was still rooting and crying after his first bfeed, and when the nurses told me his blood sugar was too low. When I accepted a formula top-up rather than a glucose drip (I would rather not pierce his skin in a hospital which may have MRSA, thanks) I had already 'failed' according to stats, despite months of subsequent bfeeding. And some posters on here - when I shared story - were of the opinion that I shouldn't have given him anything and to ignore the medics.

That I DO find extreme, given there is a teeny risk of brain damage with low blood sugar. I mean, however teeny, surely you would avoid that? And why would we listen to the medical profession on the health benefits of breast milk but not on the dangers of low blood sugar?

I know a mother is designed to provide for her baby but sometimes Nature needs a little helping hand. Similarly placentas are supposed to provide but don't always. I, for example, was 'failure to thrive in the womb' and had to be whipped out in high drama. According to Nature I shouldn't be here.

Thanks Lady hope that i got my point across ok without being too harsh .

There is nothing wrong with the MW asking if the mum wants to bf, when doing the birth plan and gently asking again once given birth as the mum might have changed her mind, but it should be just that, and if she says no than so be it, offer the formula and do not judge or look down to her because of that. I also feel that MW should give the woman info on both formula and bf and talk about the health benefits of bf as mums might no know and allow them to then make an informed decsion themselves.

Was I unusual in that noone suggested I feed my DS after he was born? I'd had a crash section but after an hour's monitoring I was wheeled to the ward and left. He didn't show any signs of wanting food and refused to feed when I did try (at approximately 8 hour intervals). He finally fed a few days later and I was told "that's quite normal for section babies".

"If 75% of women are currently initiating BF, and that 75% are successful, that's a significant number of women which will raise the cultural visability and promote BF all by itself, through people seeing mothers BF in public, those mothers talking about BF to friends and family, supporting them if they choose to BF."

That, would be brilliant!

How to do it - on a very practical level? I have been speaking to lots of people about this - a couple of the problems have been:

tongue tie - severe, so we need doctor's able to do this, seeing as we are talking about a person's food! It is pretty vital .

tiredness - formula helps (or they think it will help) the baby to sleep a longer stretch at night. This is a hard one, as a complete cultural change would be needed - in a collectivist culture, the children are everybodies 'problem', babysitters galore, this means!

the baby feeding for what sounds like hours - so NO break, and no 'successful, efficient' feeds. No idea what to do here?!

i'm sure their are more - it's clearly a minefield.

everybody's

Obviously I have limited experience of BF, but something several friends have mentioned, and I have also seen on PN wards after having my 3, is both that the baby "isn't getting enough" or isn't feeding successfully at regular intervals. I have no idea how this is measured, but from what I understand this is quite normal in BF? I do wonder if perhaps if my friends or the women on the PN had been told that, maybe they would have continued BF, rather than being pushed into FF as the baby needs to be feeding successfully before they will be allowed home.

Could the tiredness issue be helped with a campaign for safe co-sleeping?

I've been dipping in and out of this thread, as I am currently experiencing my own difficulties with BF (I have started a thread myself, if anyone has any words of wisdom they would like to share!)

Ruby - I am finding that BF IS a minefield - and accepting that 'breast is best' is really the very easy part of what can be a difficult, stressful and demanding experience.

ImSoNotTelling made lots of valid points early on in this thread. My current experience of BF is not that I need to be reminded that it is the best thing to do - I have no argument with that on an intellectual level.

What is difficult is the total lack of support to do something of which you may have no/limited/previous poor experience - and just be expected to get on with it!

MWs check you are ''successfully feeding'' before you leave the hospital so they can tick it off their list of things to monitor. What constitutes successful is a mystery to me. I am sitting here 3 weeks later, pretty sure it's not going 100% right, but clueless as to what to do to rectify it. Cue me having to seek support independently.

Frankly, I would prefer to have a BF counsellor come to visit me at home in the place of a HV, who is going to go through a checklist and ask me if I have any financial problems, or whether DH drinks and smokes.

If government funding is limited, let's remove these 'check box' exercises (it's not support) and provide something meaningful. I am perservering because I am bloody minded and hate to think there is something I can't do...but I have considered giving up several times in my short BF career so far, so I can well sympathise with others who do give it up and move to FF early on - even though they know, and probably accept, that 'breast is best...

Nice idea, but there will never be enough volunteer trained Breastfeeding Counsellors available to visit every new mum in the UK !

However the NHS already pays for people to help new mothers breastfeed, these are midwives and health visitors. Some are very good at this element of their work, whilst others lacks proper training and/or enough time to give new mothers the support they so badly need.

If more investment can be made in supporting breastfeeding, IMO it should be spent on improving the training of our current health professionals. That will make the biggest difference to the most mothers.