AIBU to think you get less attention at school as a 'well behaved' child?

[mylifemykids]

I'm so fed up of DS coming home and telling me his teacher hasn't had time to change his reading book/listen to him read/tell the class their daily story just because she's been busy with x,y or z who have been naughty AGAIN.

He's such a well behaved little boy and the majority of his class are also well behaved. There are about 6 children in his class who have been labelled as 'challenging' (not SN before anyone asks) and therefore seem to take up A LOT of the teacher/TA's time.

Today DS came home very upset because one of these children got the first 'Headmistress Star of the Week award' in their class (it was their first time at assembly with the whole school). When I asked him why he was so upset about it he said 'well S is always naughty but he got an award for being good just for one week when I'm good EVERY week and I didn't get one'

I know I probably ABU because obviously these children need to be dealt with but it just seems the majority of the class seem to suffer because of it.

AIBU to think this is normal practise in all schools?!

When my DGD started school all the children were given a questionaire to fill in. Things like "Do you like Library, recess, lunch sport etc" All yes no answers. Questions read out by the teacher. This was placed in their end of year portfolios. The same questionaire was completed at the end of the year. The question "Do you like assembly?" was answered yes at the beginning of the year and no at tne end of the year. I asked DGD why. Her answer "Because the same children always get all the awards". When a 5 year old is capable of noticing this, you would think that the teachers would put a litle more thought into the way they give out awards.
I know it's not easy. DD is a primary school teacher and she makes sure DGD who is now 7, understands why some awards are given out.

When I was teacher training,I made sure that group activities included children of all abilities and equal number of boys and girls.

I I had noticed in a three week prac. that group activities usually had the "trendy" group of girls with all the latest pens and pencils. The "naughty" boys, the "hopeless" kids, etc.

This was a class of 10 and 11 year olds. After changing the groups around, the little trendies had 2 "naughty" boys in their group. The class had just finished a unit on Oral hygiene. Not a very exciting topic but lightened up a bit by Pam Ayres "I wish I"d looked after me Teeth".

The group task was to produce a booklet on the topic. After much grumbling, the girls decided that one of the "naughty" boys was quite good at colouring in so that could be his job. The other boy was good at drawing so he illustrated the book.

The outcome was a brilliant effort by all concerned and a lesson to all children never to underestimate the ability of other children.

Sorry this is so long (if anyone is still reading) but I am absolutely passionate about ALL childen getting a fair go and discovering that they all have a talent of some sort.

hmm ihave ds3 that takes up a lot of time when n schoolnot challenging behaviour but then he is meant to have a ta to himself but is often shared with class .

But for him any kinda acheviment is a big thing and means he has out a lot of rffort in , were talking things like trying to pull up pants.

But do have ds2 that has always been well behaved and slid under radar wehn comes to awards , but has been aware from a early age after somecarefull explaning that for other dc little things need rewarding and that he is lucky enough not to struggle with.Helped by setting up reward system at home and lots of praise at home

I agree with op, the same seems to happen here with the stupid sun cloud system they have - my ds is good at school but that doesn't mean sitting nice and quietly etc come naturally to him (his behaviour at home is witness to that!) he does have to think about it and work on it. To say that what a difference star, certificate, sticker whatever can make to kids that have nothing else - it makes a difference to all kids no matter whether they are lively or not, and lively/not well behaved does not always equate to having nothing else. It isn't hard to reward all children - especially the little ones, my son is beyond happy to get a tiny sticker on his jumper to show me after school

YANBU
Seems to me the teacher and TAs are having to do a traditional parental role in so much as what should be instilled at home (manners, politeness etc) are now left for schools to deal with, in a lot of cases.
This results in the teacher having less time to actually teach.

Whilst still holding to my 'Every child needs recognition' principles, I do agree that in many cases teachers are having to try and fix problems that go way beyond planning, teaching and marking.
But if we don't. what happens next? If we can't give a child a sense of self-worth and some basic skills on how to function around others, who will?
The ranting about feral teenagers and adults is always a hot topic, but there would be a lot more around if some professionals didn't try and do something about it at a grass roots level with younger children, and then keep going. Because once they've left full time education, there are few resources out there to help them.

That is true but what we are seeing in my sons class (more lively boys than quiet in this one!) is that the quiet well behaved kids are starting to slip into the same behaviour patterns as the lively ones - they see them getting the rewards etc for 1 day of good behaviour and they get nothing for doing it every day.

That's because they are not being praised and rewarded for their efforts to work hard, be thoughtful and kind to others, achieve high grades, whatever good examples they are setting. Children need attention, and so it's up to the teacher to show what sort of behaviour attracts positive attention, and to make sure what they plan and teach is interesting and differentiated so that the majority have a sense of acievement at the end of the day. Like rotating around the groups so that it's not always the less able or the higher ability that get group attention from an adult.

YANBU. However, the "challenging" children require more attention because of their nature - I would guess they either have: learning difficulties/disabilities, social/emotional difficulties due to background or both.

These kids require more encouragement and more input in order to achieve and realistically most of them probably will struggle to achieve no matter what input they're given at school.

I work kids with a variety of the problems listed above and yes, they do get treated differently from the "normal" children and they get treated differently from each other depending on their specific needs. Being fair doesn't always mean treating everyone equally.

Having said that there should be systems of reward for achievement or effort for the rest of the school to give them encouragement. If there is nothing like that in place then I'd be having a word, if there already is then I think you just have to accept the bias towards children with complex and challenging behaviour.

Yep, MyHouse... That's the crux, there's no real award system for children like my DS. Accept totally that the others need help & I would never deny them that help, but just not at the expense of my child, which it is right now.

I'm a teacher myself in primary so I thought I'd post a bit from the other side. It IS frustrating and often teachers are well aware of disproportionate levels of attention been given to more 'challenging' children. In reality I have 30 children in my class and no extra adults for around 75% of the week. It's a no win situation and the system itself is essentially the problem. I am forced to deal with incidents/ potential incidents for the safety of other children, often resulting in the quiet children getting less time. For example I have two boys who regularly fight at lunchtime and come back to class in a rage. I end up getting the rest to sit silently with reading books while I talk to said boys/ sepatare them/ remove them from the room for the safety of others. I'd LOVE to ignore them frankly, but then I'd probably quickly have an innocent child caught in the middle. Sometimes things like changing reading books runs out of time at the end of day because in the middle of it I have to deal with other issues. I have an unusually calm class to be fair to them and I really like the more 'challenging' pupils in the class (I also fully understand WHY they are like this, none of them are simply naughty for the fun of it). At the end of the day though there's 30 children and one of me, add in the fact that for various reasons around 5-8 of the children are very needy and I'm sure you'll appreciate I'm not superwoman. To add further pressure I have a lot of pressure and paperwork from above about meeting the needs of identified children (e.g. reading support/ maths one 2 one/ behaviour charts/ detailed observations....) which I'll be chased up on if I fail to do. Basically if I don't change X's book regularly (maybe daily) I'm not meeting his needs or if I don't reward 'Y' for indentified good behaviour targets I'm not meeting his needs in his paperwork. Something has to slip, if I added up all the additional things I'm meant to do on top of teaching time for the whole class it would be the entire length of the day again each day.

Having said that I make a real effort with the 'good' kids. Some of them are less obvious, e.g hanging around with them at breaktime for long chats about their interests, giving a lot of verbal praise and telling them frequently how well they'll do when they're in 'big school' and saying how much I like them. I try to give other treats too, e.g. extra time on the computer or letting them use my special stationary etc.

TO be honest I'm thinking of leaving teaching, I feel constantly stuck in the middle. I love working with children, which makes it harder in a way because you care so much when you see the school not meeting their needs.

I would though be very open to a parent coming in and (calmly!) explaining to me that their child feels a bit underconfident/ left out and I'd make the effort to 'notice' them a bit more. I'm not perfect, but I do try!

StawberryKate..I reckon teaching has to be one of the hardest jobs. You sound like you care and I'm sure others do to. I can see you're pulled from pillar to post.

I'm going in to speak to the teacher next week, not sure what good it'll do and I know I'm not the first. We'll see.

YANBU. At secondary school level, my quiet, dreamy DD appeared to be targetted, even bullied by - often young, inexperienced - teachers for minor misdemeanours like not being able to answer a question or forgetting stuff. Other kids were doing far worse stuff, including sticking their hand up DD's skirt as she passed, throwing rocks at other kids, smoking weed etc., and yet the sanctions seemed minor.

I got the impression that some of the teachers were scared of the disruptive kids or saw them as being 'spirited', so it was easier to pick on the quiet ones who would not fight back.

She's at 6th form college now and flourishing. Respectful teachers who admire her individuality.

If this 'challenging' child has managed to be 'good' for a week, try to think about what he has had to overcome to achieve this, im guessing a lot more than 'good' child.

If a child is viewed as 'good' the school would assume that their needs are being met, unlike a 'naughty' child.

If you have a 'good' child and you feel that his needs are not being met, i think its up to you to inform the school of this, otherwise he will get overlooked.

Too, not to..gah. (((pedant)))

I agree with op.
DD is in yr 8 at an outstanding girls school, but in her teaching group, 8 of the girls in a class of 30 are very disruptive,permanently on report, have had internal exclusions.
We are workiing closely with the yr head, as I am concerned about dd who is well behaved, but with her own issues (OCD) being sidelined- it can take 20 minutes to settle group, lots of teaching time lost.
The girls involved have behavioural problems and the school is bending over backwards to support them and ensure their self esteem isn't lowered.
However, my dd is now coming home saying what's the point in working hard- they don't do their homework and when they do it's a huge hurray for them, yet she works hard all the time, despite huge concentration problems .

As a teacher I know it can be very hard, but I do make every effort to notice the ones that are always good. We have a sticker reward system and I give out stickers for things like sitting nicely on the carpet. But I give those stickers to all children who sit nicely. So those who always do, always gets one. I keep a record of whohas been given the big rewards in assembly and do try to make sure everyone has it once. Every half term there is a special big reward and I always choose one of the kids who are always good for that one.

Part of the reason DS is well behaved is because he doesn't want the teacher's attention! He finds it awkward and embarrassing to be singled out, even for positive reasons.

Children who present as 'good' children are not always happy or really good. They can be switched off and learning very little.

claw3 - you make the wrong assumption that kids will express themselves by being disruptive if they are struggling socially or academically. Teachers should be able to notice all children, not just the ones behaving badly, or their teaching methods are failing.

Agree with donkeyderby it isn't just about (or at all in our case) praise and rewards. It is about the fact that if a teacher spends a large amount of time simply controlling the class, then they are not spending the amount of time they need to be teaching the class.

As I said DS is totally spacey, left to his own devices he will stare out the window at the trees. But he won't make a fuss and he will do what he is asked when he is asked. I totally believe that he would get lost in a large class where a teacher doesn't have the time to do both (i.e. control and teach).

Socially/emotionally he is spot on, he does have a supportive loving family and therefore does an have edge. But I don't know how to teach him to read and write and all the things that I send him to school for.

am saddened by lowenergylightbulbs posts. I know she is of course right. these kids having nothing, so need a reward. o.k. fine, great.
but not at the expense of a child who is normally good, well behaved.

thta argument just does not sit right with me, at all.

But then why should completely NT children be rewarded for managing the basics?
(I realise I'm completely contradicting myself btw, but having been thinking about this)
What has happened to our society that children need to rewarded on a regular basis for managing to sit still and do what they are told at school? Look back 20, 30 years and we were expected to manage, I didn't get stickers galore and I turned out fine
...Surely we should be saying to our dc, look, be thankful that you find this easy, you don't need praise for it...not, naughty Jonny got a sticker, therefore I should too.
If this was the prevalent attitude, then we would free up time for the teacher, who already has enough on her plate with paperwork and teaching...it must take loads of effort to remember to praise every child regularly for manage to master a basic skill.,
I took ds1 to his football match earlier,. his team mate scored a goal, then came off and said to his mum, I scored, can I have some match attax?
What? not enough reward that your team, that you want to play for, won then?
obviously not... I think we should stop trying to praise/reward our dc at every opportunity and reserve it for when they really deserve it.

YANBU
The well behaved are less well rewarded too. They get a lot more reward stickers for behaviour that the well behaved children manage everyday.
It's not fair, the children cotton onto it soon enough and children don't like unfairness.

It's life. If you want to be noticed make some noise or fuss. Depends on what you want as a child.
I was always the quiet one and liked it that way, having a prize of any kind would have mortified me as I hate too much attention.

NT children still need pastoral care, and all children need their self esteem and self worth nurtured in a regular basis.