AIBU to think you get less attention at school as a 'well behaved' child?

[mylifemykids]

I'm so fed up of DS coming home and telling me his teacher hasn't had time to change his reading book/listen to him read/tell the class their daily story just because she's been busy with x,y or z who have been naughty AGAIN.

He's such a well behaved little boy and the majority of his class are also well behaved. There are about 6 children in his class who have been labelled as 'challenging' (not SN before anyone asks) and therefore seem to take up A LOT of the teacher/TA's time.

Today DS came home very upset because one of these children got the first 'Headmistress Star of the Week award' in their class (it was their first time at assembly with the whole school). When I asked him why he was so upset about it he said 'well S is always naughty but he got an award for being good just for one week when I'm good EVERY week and I didn't get one'

I know I probably ABU because obviously these children need to be dealt with but it just seems the majority of the class seem to suffer because of it.

AIBU to think this is normal practise in all schools?!

A friend of mine says that the world is shaped and then run by unreasonable men people

DCs' primary school were quite good at making sure every child got "special mentions"
My DS was well behaved and quiet and used to get forgotten ie had been at cubs over a year but never got to take home "hissing sid" etc and I did have a word and they had forgotten him, same with barnaby the bear in reception.

However later on he used to get special mentions for enthusiasm and effort.

When he went on to secondary he seem to be noticed everywhere, two awards at prize giving, house captain and even got his photo in school prospectus.

Very often the 'challenging' kids have feck all of any worth in their lives so an award in assembly, a gold star, certificate etc... is a 'very big thing' to them.

Thank your lucky stars that you are a good parent who gives a damn and thus has a good kid.

Kids are not 'born bad' and 99% of the time there is a reason for 'bad' behaviour.

I am guilty of this myself in school, I reckon if you knew the reasons why some of my kids are 'bad' you'd do the same too in order to reward them when they are good.

Yes, I work in a state school on an 'estate'.

depends on the school and the teacher and no, I don't think it's normal practice. Why don't you speak to your teacher and ask what she's looking for when it comes to recognition. But I also think you need to talk to your ds about how all kinds of behaviour/skills will be rewarded and to be pleased for others. His time will come, I'm sure.
ds2 is impeccably behaved, he's also mild SEN and very very quiet. He regularly gets awards. Last presentation assembly he had a headmaster award for confidence, today he is star of the week for always trying hard. He could easily slip under the radar but has a fantastic teacher.

Ingles I think that shows how individual teachers are so valuable. I also think that many of the other posts on here are valid comments too.

My DS is a mix between being very good but can fidget a lot, to the point where the teacher has made comment and expressed he works on it. He's been working on sitting still and really trying hard, but nothing. He was really upset again this afternoon as he said they just haven't even noticed. They give out weekly certificates to a whole number of children and can give out to a whole class at times. However, 2 very demanding children (known for biting, beating, hitting, snatching etc) have had several awards over the past few months. So all DS can see is awards and then still getting hit/beaten up by these two causing chaos.

Sometimes awards can be very destructive as well as constructive.

IME children have no problem understanding that some children struggle to behave appropriately in class, and that when they do it should be celebrated and rewarded. Parents though are another matter.

I'm not disputing the fact that it should be celebrated and rewarded TFM. What I'm disputing is the fact that MY child behaves appropriately in class and it ISN'T rewarded

But is that what they struggle with? My DC don;t seem to have a problem behaving, but DS does have a problem with organisation. He gets rewarded for remembering to collect his clarinet and taking his coat and bookbag to after school club instead of leaving them in school. Most children 8 can manage that . That's what he gets rewarded for. No ther year 4 does. All the DC at his school have their own targets. And rightly so.

YANBU, it was always like that when I was at school. The converse was that if I stepped out of line I got a bollocking, while the bad lads only got a bollocking if they did something appalling. Drove me mad.

Although not as mad as my mum constantly rewarding my sister for behaviour that I managed without comment.

I'm 38 and to this day can still taste the bitterness I felt the day my sister was given a pine dressing table to encourage her to take a pride in her bedroom. My bedroom was kept tidy(ish) anyway so I didn't get anything

It evened out though. I do love my sister with all my heart and now as an adult I'm always trying to find ways to help her out. Maybe it just is different people, different needs.

By lowenergylightbulb Fri 29-Jan-10 19:52:31
Very often the 'challenging' kids have feck all of any worth in their lives so an award in assembly, a gold star, certificate etc... is a 'very big thing' to them.

Thank your lucky stars that you are a good parent who gives a damn and thus has a good kid.

Kids are not 'born bad' and 99% of the time there is a reason for 'bad' behaviour.

I am guilty of this myself in school, I reckon if you knew the reasons why some of my kids are 'bad' you'd do the same too in order to reward them when they are good.

Yes, I work in a state school on an 'estate'.

What a brilliant post. I totally agree.

I agree that a teacher needs to be fair about dishing out awards and merits, whatever they are awarded for. I keep tick lists for award certificates, housepoints are on the wall so I can see if a child hasn't had any today and consider why, same for other rewards and sanctions and verbal praising.
But we also discuss why children get awards, what their targets are, with each other as a class. So X gets one for neat handwriting but Y doesn't because it's easy for them and not something they have to put effort into. The trick is to remember that Y needs one for their individual effort. How else can we recognise and celebrate everyone as an individual?

YANBU. When I was at primary school there was an incredible naughty challenging boy in my class. So bad was his behaviour, he had to have a TA just for him (he used to throw chairs at the teacher on a regular basis!). But what actually happened was that the Teacher ended up looking after him, whilst the TA kept an eye on what we were doing. Noone really TAUGHT us anything!

As a result everyone in my class was terrible at maths. It was only because my mum has a degree in Maths, and managed to teach me 4 years of work in a summer holiday, that I ended up doing okay in secondary school.

I'm not sure what the answer is, but I hate the way the 'good' children are left to fend for themselves, whilst the poor teachers are left to use 'damage control' on the higher maintenance children (I don't include SN children in this BTW).

Oh, and I'm stunned by the lack of discretion in some of the schools mentioned, in that they label the children with SN, past abusive situations, anxiety issues, and ASDs so visibly that parents know who is and who isn't on the register. Disgraceful. We are much more discrete and confidential and none of our parents would be able to say 'not SN before anyone asks' unless they were talking about their own child. Because it's none of their bloody business.

discreet
get irritated and my grammar is stuffed up.

Some well-behaved children in some schools will fall below the radar of some teachers, yes. In an ideal world that wouldn't happen but in the classes/schools where it does then those who notice it, be they pupils, parents or other staff should bring it up with someone senior and ask for the behaviour policy or rewards policy to be reviewed.

I've spent the past 6 years teaching in a state school on an estate that no-one wants to live on and for many of the children who attend the school life is a massive struggle. I do all I can to make school a happy and safe place for them and every other child in my class.

Whilst I don't always notice every single child every minute of the day I know that not a day goes by when I haven't praised/rewarded evey child during some part of that day whether that's for something academic, being polite/kind/helpful, sitting still, trying hard, coming up with a good/interesting/unusual idea, running an errand, reminding me where I've put my classroom keys etc. I ignore as much of the low-level disruptive behaviour as I possibly can but I want all the children in my class to feel noticed and so I do my utmost to do so.

Different children need to be rewarded for different things in different ways.

VeryTellyTubby - cheers!!

'Naughty Kids' get a very bad press on message boards, at the school gates and in general.

I have seen, many times, and at first hand how a certificate in assembly, a fecking sticker on a chart or just a ruddy mention in assembly can really make a difference to kids who literally have nothing else nice ever happen to them.

Mumsnet is a self selecting group. I don't think that this self selecting group of people who join here because they care about their kids and want to be good/better parents (that's why I'm here) realise how fecking shite some kids lives are. I mean seriously shite, where the only 'care' or good word comes from a sticker or a certificate.

I put my hands up, I do give awards more readily to the kids who have shite home lives and really try hard to conform to societal norms that they just don't understand. In my opinion the 'nice' kids with 'nice' parents (in my school) have their own reward - i.e - they'll get on well in life without a gold star or summat.

By QandA Fri 29-Jan-10 18:47:06
"The middle ability, well behaved children are always sidelined to some extent, but then you have to balance that up with the knowledge that the other children face challenges that they will not have to, so if the worst that happens to your DS is that he feels slighted by the rewards system, then I would be grateful for that and explain to him that some children find it harder to behave well and so have worked harder iyswim."

Well said.

As the mother of a bright and "challenging" child, and a middle ability, very well behaved child, I think I love you.

"Oh, and I'm stunned by the lack of discretion in some of the schools mentioned, in that they label the children with SN, past abusive situations, anxiety issues, and ASDs so visibly that parents know who is and who isn't on the register. Disgraceful. We are much more discrete and confidential and none of our parents would be able to say 'not SN before anyone asks' unless they were talking about their own child. Because it's none of their bloody business."

I was wondering this Goblinchild. As far as I am aware, none of the parents know DS1 potentially has Asperger's, and I would be furious if I found out that this had been disclosed.

I do see your point OP, and I agree it is bad teaching for your child to never be rewarded. That said, if he finds certain things easy (sitting still, staying quiet for eg), then of course these things should be expected of him and he shouldn't be rewarded for them. But perhaps he struggles with maths, or neat handwriting, and if he makes a particular effort in one of those areas he should be rewarded for that. Maybe you could explain to him that X finds it very very hard to sit still, just like your DS finds it hard to do maths (or whatever) and that is why X gets praise for something that seems so simple to your DS.

As for the star of the week, I find that usually everyone gets their turn at this, it's more about finding a positive in each child than that child being the "best" that week.

Thanks Lynette

You are most definitely NBU. I moved my dd from primary school after getting so sick of their 'best efforts' awards ALWAYS going to the same children (usually the naughty ones but also in particular one girl who was teachers pet - got awards almost every week it was embarrassing and sickening. DD used to come in every Friday most despondant "why dont I ever get an award for anything?" Her crime -to be an average, well behaved child.

In my opinion it is poor teaching. Unless a child is on the special needs register for a specific behavioural problem they should not take any more of the teacher's attention, provided that the teacher is managing the class properly.
I would get stroppy if i were you. It is outrageous that his reading record etc does not get checked. Talk to the teacher first, if this gets you nowhere, the deputy or the head. If she can't even read the class their story it sounds as though she needs help from more senior teachers to find ways of managing the behavour of the disruptive children.
I am a teacher by the way, in case this message sounds very strident and I spent 10 years teaching in some very challenging schools. Good teachers should be meeting the needs of ALL the pupils.

'I was wondering this Goblinchild. As far as I am aware, none of the parents know DS1 potentially has Asperger's, and I would be furious if I found out that this had been disclosed.'

Wait til he comes home with the badge, T-shirt or his dx branded on his head so that everyone knows.

Lowenergylightbulb, there are two flaws that I can see to your argument.
One is that all children are entitled to have their efforts and achievements recognised in some way that is meaningful for them.
Second, that if you are not seen to be even-handed, resentment and anger builds up against the very children you are trying to support, often led by the mothers of the less rewarded who are resentful.

How do you know that the don't have behavioural difficulties or SN? Are you party to any ongoing or completed assessments on these children? If a "challenging" child has been given "star of the week" there is likely to be a reason.

It is a shame for your DS that the staff seem a bit overstretched, but no need to be neg about some kids who sound a bit miserable tbh. At least your DS has your support and encouragement and no doubt in time you will be able to get things a bit more on track with school.

I personally (despite being an 'average' student) was given a LOT of extra time at school, but then none of the other parents who complained about this actually knew what my home life was like. Let's just say that a certificate at school was the only good thing to happen in a week. It spurred me on knowing that someone, somewhere (unlike at home) was willing to take the time to understand how difficult it was for me to do my homework, or concentrate in class. I ended up working harder and harder at school because I was given this sort of encouragement when it was needed.

And what about classes like my DS2's? Although I know who has SEN (due to having known the mum's from a RL support group BEFORE they joined the school), they have put : My DS2, who has muscle problems to the point of not being able to write at all (in Y1) and asd, another 2 boys with asd, a profoundly deaf girl AND a child with English as a second language who is new to the country all in one class, as it is the only Y1 class with a TA. So one TA and one teacher in a class of 30 5&6yo's, 5 dc's needing extra time, and another 2 with 'challenging behaviour'. It bugs me (very occasionally) that my DS1 (7.9yo)in Y3 NEVER gets his acheivements recognised, and that so much more is expected of him that others his age, but realistically, he knows that he doesn't have to work as hard at reading/writing/ behaving as some of the others in his class, and I'm at home to praise him if he does something that's praiseworthy for him IYSWIM. Some of the other children (like me as a child) DON'T have that luxury.

Fair is not the same as equal, and is a LOT harder to properly manage.