Feeling desperately worried about having to be default carer for my elderly and ill MIL...

[littletree]

Long story that I shall try to compact:

MIL is 80 and has Parkinson's. She lives 2 hours away from us. She divorced DH's father when he was a child. She has two children- DH and evil SIL. Evil SIL lives in same village as her but is usually swanning off on holiday with her wealthy partner and therefore not a reliable helper for MIL. She does help but not with any consistency. MIL lives on her own in a terraced house and has nice neighbours and another elderly friend that lives a couple of doors down. This arrangement has worked fine up until just recently when thre have been a couple of incidents when it was clear she was not ok on her own.

She is a very nice lady with a gentle nature but of course like all of us she has her faults. She can be nagging to DH and irritate the hell out of him and can hover and nitpick.

She also throughout our marriage has come to stay with us for extended periods of time which drives me bananas. She comes for a week to two weeks at a time totalling around 2 months of the year. I am fine with this for the first 3 days but after this I feel like I am going out of my skin! I can not stand having someone else in the house for that length of time. I feel suffocated and my smile starts to droop and I become a bit snappy.

2 years ago she was diagnosed with Renal cancer. She had her kidney removed and needed aftercare. Her crazy daughter was as usual off on another exotic trip (leaving her 3 small children to be looked after by the au pair) and my husband was working in Belgium only coming home on weekends. I was left to be her carer by default. At the time my ds' were 2 and 4. During this time my grandmother died and I couldn't leave to go to funeral because I had to stay and look after MIL and children. Felt sad and suffocated.

Fast forward 2 years ago to last weekend. MIL has a fall whilst shopping in London. Call from police telling us she was being rushed to hospital. DH went in and released her from hospital and brought her back to our house. Her face is a mess because she broke the fall with it- not breaking anything but badly cutting and bruising it. On Monday, DH had to go to Belgium ironically and I was on my own with MIL and 2 DS;. Had to take her to surgery to get Parkinson's meds (as she hadn't been expecting to stay with us and hadn't brought any), then back to nurse for dressing wounds, then off to pharmacy to get medication. At 4am that night she tapped on my door with horrendous nosebleed that wouldn't stop. Call ambulance. They can't stop it and whisk her away- also bp was in stroke range.

I got a real taster of what it would be like to have to care for her and I didn't like it. I feel angry with her because she had Parkinson's for around 15 years now and has known it won't get any better. And duh! When you have cancer and you're nearly 80, it is also a sign that thingsw might be going downhill. She has made no provisions for herself but instead expects everyone to tell her what to do- and believes it is her children's responsibility to look after her. I am afraid I disagree with this 100% because I believe we are all responsible for ourselves. Yes, people need support and help but she is of sound mind and like I said, it is not as if this has cropped up overnight.

DH and sister hate eachother so I am always acting as a go between and I hate it!

MIL has hinted that she would like to live adjacent to us in a granny flat but all I can see is my life being finished with running around doing things for her! I feel very suffocated as I write this. DH is 10 years older than me and my own mother is 20 years younger than MIL so I feel I am facing the 'What to do with Mother' question earlier than I should. I feel cross that I have to spend so much time having this woman in my house and caring for her because she's NOT MY MOTHER!

I am sorry there is so much more to the story and I realize I sound harsh but I feel really really stressed out by this and worry how it's going to pan out. It has really upset the equilibrium in our house with DH and I both not sleeping. AIBU?

And if you had read my posts, larrygryll, you will have noticed that my MIL did have wisdom to contribute on that score.

I like the idea of the older people looking for intellectual stimulus and great restaurants with people younger then themselves. I suspect that older people like that are more of a joy to be with, and less of a chore.

Both of my grandmothers however have no cultural interests beyond soap operas, tune out of any political debate as 'it's all rubbish' and think that the mark of a good restaurant is that it is clean and has nice wallpaper. They are both also very easily offended by 'bad language', requiring much self censorship when in their company.

I think many older people are like this? Is that fair comment?

My mum loves my gran with all of her heart and soul but they have so little in common and indeed both take offense at the other's values etc - imo my gran would be far better stimulated if surrounded by people who also share her 'traditional old lady' outlook on life. Generally, they will also be old ladies.

It isn't an issue just now as my gran is happily living in her own home but when it arises I shouldn't imagine that love will be enough - they can't live happily together. My gran will have to live with others of her own type.

Very interesting reading the latest posts since I have been attending to family life here. MIL slept in even though she wanted to watch the tennis (another sound night for her with my DH and I tossing and turning again!) I had to go in and make sure she was still breathing. Her face is still a lovely kaleidescope of colours and sutures and it is downright difficult for me to look at her right now. My yougest ds and I have headlice (again!) Oh joy. So, before cooking sunday lunch I spent the better part of the morning de-lousing and doing nit checks (Including MIL) How romantic and rose-tinted and selfish my life is yet again.

I don't think I complain that life isn't perfect and doesn't have it's fair share of downs (well, duh!) but again, I don't believe I made vows to my MIL either when I got married. Again, I say there is no way in hell I would ever ask my husband to care for my mother. No way. And, again I say it is up to the individual to think about how there lives pan out. Hope for the best, plan for the worst. Does anyone on here really think they are not going to get old? Ill? With life expectancy increasing all the time, most of us will live long lives and have a lot of health problems in those latter years.

Again, my MIL knew she was going to get to this day. My dh has been discussing it with her for years. We have had many frank discussions and she never acts upon any advice. that is the frustrating point. Because by not dictating what is to happen to her she has dumped it on her children (in this case dh & I) and I suppose I will include SIL on her better days. Forget her age- we are talking about somebody of sound mind who is viewed by society as a responsible adult. In which case, she has chosen for her children that they will have to be burdened (yes burdened) with her care because there is no way we would let her deteriorate without helping her.

Also, I believe she hasn't decided what course she wants to take because ultimately she thinks if she lets it go on long enough dh or sister in law will just say 'C'mon and move in mum'.

DH is now taking her back to her house. She will stay with SIL who is back from her skiing jaunt. Before she left I asked her to please put a plan in place. Today. Not sometime in the next year drifting along...someday...maybe...

I talked to her about getting a red thingy for around her neck. She said what's the point? I keep my telephone in the bedroom. But I said- what if you fall down the stairs? What if you're in the bathroom? What if you're having a stroke/heart attack and you can't reach the phone. Ahh she said. But then someone will have to let the paramdedics in. She always has an answer for everything not working unless it's me asking 'Would you like to move into the spare bedroom?'

Vent vent. (Sorry I gave up on correct grammatical usage whilst typing.)

littletree,I am sorry to read about your situation.Your MIL certainly does seem determined to turn down any suggestion but living with you.I've no suggestions to make,but wanted to tell you that the stress of caring for someone can make you physically ill.

My uncle was born with severe disabilities and not expected to live past 20.My mum was his only sibling,and due to various reasons could not care for him at home.He died last year,aged 65,and lived in a lovely group home prior to his death.But,his last 2 years were a nightmare of illness,falls,hospital admissions and tests.At one point it was feared that he had cancer,and as he did not have the capability to understand anything about it,or that he would need operations and chemotherapy,it was down to my mum to make the decision as to what to do.Did she insist he had painful and unpleasant treatment,when all he would understand was that people were hurting him,when his heart would probably give out under the strain?Or did she decide not to treat him,but to keep him comfortable?In the middle of all this,he had a heart attack and died,so she never had to make the decision.

But my mum spent most of last year in terrible pain,with digestive upsets so severe that she nearly passed out with pain.None of the Drs could find out what was wrong and we were all terribly worried.She was ill enough to miss out on several family occasions,dd2's first day at school,parties ect.However,after my uncle's death,the upsets stopped-they had been caused purely by stress.I'd never have imagined that stress could make someone so very poorly.

When you talk to your dh and SIL,remind them that you have a responsibility to your small children and to remain well enough to care for them too.

Good luck

Thank you Furious George

The reason my MIL gave up on caring for her MIL was precisely that given by FuriousGeorge; she realised that she had a responsibility towards her children and could not then care adequately care for her two children, one of whom was a baby. Also, because she realised that her MIL's constant fussing and worrying over health and hygiene was turning her 4yo into a very anxious and unhappy little boy.

In my mother's case, taking in her MIL (if physically possible) would have meant that my little brother had to grow up with someone who constantly pointed out to him that he was not his parents' real child because he was adopted ("your children don't behave like this", whenever he put a foot out of place). They were never able to shut her up on the subject. You can imagine the damage that would have done.

Not all elderly people are as charming as my own MIL. I'd love to share a house with her, but while she was well enough she didn't want it, and now she is too ill it isn't possible. Besides, caring for two disabled children of my own and a disabled adult would be quite difficult: I could hardly take her to their hospital appointments, even if I could take them to hers.

If I was asked to share a house with someone who said the kind of things to my ds as my Gran said to my brother- well, I'd have to put my responsibilities to my own child first.

Littletree- I have just read this thread from start to finish and I wish you well.

You have been kind and sensitive regarding a suitable package of care for your mil but accepting that you will not be able to provide all of it.

Caring for an elderly relative is not a task to be taken on lightly, those who suggest that it will only be for a couple of years (! an eternity for someone stressed out with the challenges it brings) will have a horrendous shock as many are living a lot longer than previous generations but with increasing healthcare needs.

My elderly Grandmother is currently causing some concern within our family following a recent fall. She is fairly 'challenging' towards her daughter (my aunt) normally but she expected my Aunt to move in with her and care for her. Despite the fact that neither would be able to live with each other for more than a couple of days without falling out. She now has a package of care in her own home (at present), but we will find a care setting for her if her needs increase .
She will not be happy with this (anything that isn't her dd is not satsfactory), but she is one member of the family, and all the family's needs, need to be taken into consideration, not just her's because that's what she wants.

I would not expect my own parents to meet her care needs (nor I theirs), and we have already disussed this as a family regarding their care as they age.

This may sound cold and callous to some but I do have experience of work with elderly people in care homes, I have seen the variety of needs that they have, which when shared between a team of carers is ok but would be a very heavy burden for one individual to shoulder at the expense of their own life.

I firmly believe in care homes, and that rather than using them as a dumping ground families are able to function effectively which leaves them better able to be 'there' for the family memeber with visits and support.

Good luck littletree

Thank you Doris

Such a difficult subject. FWIW I think you are doing absolutely the right thing, littletree, in continuing to try to get some sort of plan in place. Your DH needs to start taking on the responsibility for convincing his mother that things cannot continue as they are, and that a happy medium MUST be found. For her to continually find excuses as to why things won't work is not helpful. And for your DH and his sister to continue to anticipate that you will pick up the slack is not fair. It's clear that you want to help, but having her move in with you is not going to be the ideal option.

For a good part of my life my parents lived with my mother's mother in an annexe next door to my parents house. My grandfather also lived there but only for a short while as he died very soon after they moved in. My grandfather made my mother promise to look after her mother (his dying wish), and she did - for the next 20 years. My grandmother was not an easy woman at all - and over the years she obviously became less active, more needy of care etc etc (she had a massive stroke in her 50s, then two strokes subsequently resulting from falls when she lived next door to my parents, one when she was knocked down by a car while out shopping). She had a necklace with red button (usually went off when she forgot she'd put it in her apron pocket and it was going round and round in the washing machine!), frozen meal delivery, my dad did her weekly shop for her, we picked up her pension for her, and eventually she had carers night and morning to bathe and dress her. She still had her independence, because she had her own house, her own TV etc... but was literally just across the yard from my mum's front door. My parents also built a second annexe for my grandmother's brother (double leg amputee) who was also a difficult individual (he used to "summon" us if he wanted the channel changed on the TV with the remote control, you can imagine!)... so we lived with two of them requiring care for a while. Both obviously eventually died, but in their eighties - so it's not a short term decision.

My MIL also looked after her mother in similar circumstances, in a granny flat attached to her home and then in the spare room.

Interestingly, despite having the same experiences of looking after an elderly relative in their own homes, my mother and my MIL have opposing views on how I (!) should cope with them when they get old (and I'm not an only child). My MIL says that she would NEVER want to burden us with her care. My mother has said that the last thing she EVER wants to happen is for her to go into a home...

My ILs are older than my parents, so DH (only child) and I have already had the conversation about what we would suggest to the one "left behind" when one of them passes away. MIL is a fiercely independent woman, whereas FIL is used to being looked after by his wife. However, in both cases we would probably suggest that the one left behind move closer to us (retirement flat in our village) so that they can still have their independence but are close enough that we can look after them. They currently live 45 minutes away. The issue would be much worse with my mother as my parents live 2 hours away... my brother and I have been trying to convince them to move closer to us (for a number of years (we live in the south) with no success so far.... but they are only in their 60s at present so hopefully we won't be faced with any difficult decisions there for a while.

Anyway - stick to your guns. Your DH MUST get your MIL to meet you half way.

Good luck

Littletree, well done for telling her to get her care plan in place. She does sound painful though - her reply to your eminently sensible red button plan is just downright infuriating. No wonder she winds you up.
I think she needs a visit from social workers etc to assess her at home, she will find it less easy to wriggle out of that.
I can remember my MIL taking to her bed with "back problems" for 10 days - I visited her daily and she insisted she was fine, but in all that time I never once saw her on her feet.
Then she admitted to falling on the floor from 5 am to 10 am. And still wouldn't see a doctor. In the end I called out the district nurse who took one look and called an ambulance. MIL completely crumpled in the face of the uniform, brisk manner etc and was carted off to hospital to my intense relief, where we could all begin the long and tricky process of trying to sort her and her living conditions out.
I really do wish you well, this can't be easy. Is good you and dh are able to have frank discussions with her and each other though. Just a case now of getting her to take notice of it.
Personally, I wouldn't be averse to quietly getting her on one side before she leaves and saying: "I want to be absolutely frank with you, Gladys, you have to understand that the idea of you living here full-time is a total no-no. It's not going to happen." Just spell it out so that she can't kid herself any longer, it's kinder in the end so she knows where she stands, then she'll be forced to think of other options.
Good luck!

The answer to the red button problem is that there will have to be a designated key holder; but also there can be a secure box on the outside of the house which when a code is punched in, releases the key.

My mil and fil spent much time getting a care plan in place for her ma, who had full blown Dementia. She was adamant that she would not move away from her home, and so that meant my ils (who are in their 70s), mil's sister and h, who are younger and sometimes mils brother who lives abroad doing every second weekend up to where Grandma lived. This carried on for 10 years. It exhausted my mil who had various other commitments as well. The paperwork was a nightmare, getting a team of carers organised and in place, dealing with accessing the funding, sorting frozen food deliveries etc. Mil was certain that she could not cope having her mother to live with her, and so this proved to be the best solution.

I do not think the OP is being selfish, but practical in wanting a solution that will work for her as well as everyone else. I promised in sickness and health to my husband, not his parents, and mil has always told me that my responsibilities are to my h, and then my child. It seems to me she could just move to Belgium (do come, it's great here!) and then the problem would HAVE to be sorted by sil. The best solution could be for mil to move to somewhere smaller near OP and her dh; with any excess money, fund her carers, and appreciate that you will see her often.

Good luck OP; dh and I are beginning to have these conversations about our parents now.

I get very wound up when men advise on care of elderly relatives (LeslyG was advising on this thread) - my OH only ever phones his Mum and sends the odd bunch of flowers, as does his other brothers, whilst his sister has Mum to stay several times a year - but it wasn't just that as my OH might be unusual in this.

But the answer for me is in this Daily Mail article
www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1246219/Why-men-really-feel-guilt-women.html
(OK I know it's only the Daily Mail) -but men, in general and in my experience, just don't feel guilt like women do, that's why they don't send cards, remember birthdays etc. And that's why they have no remorse when their poor old mum spends every day looking at the same four walls and never gets taken out. And why they probably wouldn't make much changes to their own lives eg golf at the weekend, work late in the evening, if an elderly relative moved in, whilst us guilt ridden females would feel we had to give up our own free time to entertain granny.

Just wanted to get this off my chest -- feel better now.

Sorry, I meant larrygylls not LeslyG.

If when I am older and if I develop dementia my son puts me in a home and doesn't feel guilty I think that's grest. I don't want him wearing himself looking after me. I'd like him to visit me occasionally but if I have dementia I probably won't remember if he does.
I think some women get too hung up on guilt and guiltily fussing over stubborn elderly relatives can ruin those women's lives and that of their family unit.
I think working out how much time a week you can spare and just doing that much and getting social services to do the rest, or leaving the relative to their own divices if they are stubborn and refuse help so they realise they need outside help is better than turning into an exhausted moaner.

YANBU in the slightest. Have just read through the thread and it sounds like you have already started along the route of getting a plan into action. Stick to your guns, it is neither your job or your duty to care for your MIL.

My two penn'orth:

My DF was an only child, when his mother died aged 89 his father was 90 and although in pretty good health, was clueless about housework, cooking, etc., so demanded to come and live with my parents. My DM refused; instead she researched into local old peoples' homes and found him a place in one (a very nice private one TBH). With much protestation he sold his house and moved into the OPH.

Within a week he was absolutely loving it. Three square meals a day, surrounded by new friends, lots of activities and entertainment laid on etc. Whenever I visited him there to take him out for a meal, I couldn't tear him away from the place!

If/when I can't cope at home, I would much rather move into an OPH than burden my relatives.

Littletree, I've just read through the thread.

It sounds like your DH needs to sit his mother down and explain to her that she is going to have increasing need of care and he (and you) are not going to be able to (a) take her in or (b) come running all the time. Because you have other responsibilities and she needs, or may in future need, more help than he/you can give. So a system of some sort needs to be put in place. There are several options (red button/carer visits; care home; etc) and he/you will help her choose, and will be part of that system, but she needs to understand that moving in with you is not one of the options.

I repeat, I really do think it needs to be your DH that has this conversation with her, as it is potentially a very hurtful conversation and is far better coming from her own son. It is all too easy for DILs to be seen/painted as uncaring by their MILs (however well you previously got on). Also, I suspect she may take it more seriously coming from your DH (partly because he is her son, partly because many women of that generation will listen more to a man than a woman - though of course not all).

good luck.

Message withdrawn