to consider aa a dangerous cult?

[Kirkers]

I am ready to be attacked by cult members.

I have read 'theorangepapers' online which is very well researched, and 'twelve step horror stories' (also available to read online) and they prove to me (on top of my own experience) that aa does much more harm than good. In every proper, conrolled experiment aa produces worse results than any other treatment, including doing nothing. It is unquestionably a cult(Google, 'is aa a cult'). Yet 93% (I am not sure about that figure, sorry) of treatment centres follow the same model. That would be the £10 billion treatment industry.

I hope this isn't too off topic for mumsnet. They do involved children too. It is awful.

I first came to mumsnet following the Julie/Jake Myerson thread. The detective work that went on was phenonmenal. Is there anyone out there breastfeeding or too pregnant to move who could look into the orange papers and tell me I'm not Erin bigchest Eronovich.

This is an absolutely genuine request for feedback from people who are prepared to consider the actual black and white evidence of this extraordinarily powerful organisation.

Thanks.

Can't see the video can you describe it. Who made it. What's in it etc

"One alcoholic can only help another alcoholic because they come together on a basis of equality" Are you sure of that? Is that the ONLY way? And are members really "equal"? Sponsorship can be regarded as a powerful role. Oldtimers that are "sober" and seem knowledgable about recovery are regarded as "miracles". That suggests power. "Oldtimers" "Sober people" brag about how many "birthdays" they have. "Stick with winners" yes, because members that have long term sobriety are the winners. It doesn't matter what real principles they have (whether they have raped/killed/were or are violent). What is really important is that they are sober. Or that they claim to be. People that relapse are humiliated because "they aren't working the program" right. Definite power issues here. But you suggest that as long as it isn't official, it's OK....Members (former members) that have been hurt and know many others that have been hurt are not self important power hungry pricks, as you suggest. They are compassionate caring people that don't want to see what has happened to them, happen to others. You, are not a compassionate, caring person. ANYTHING FOR THE CAUSE is your motto.

For the record I am not a sock puppet or a troll.I am only posting as one person.

Reminder-This is a site about AA being a dangerous cult. This is the right place for me to state my view point that it is. Why would one report posters-just because they do not agree with you?

I am not the one calling people stupid or idiots and using the F word.
I know you would love to kick me off this thread-but this is where I belond to discuss this topic.

Donewithit. The comment about your name is one I'm sure you understand unless you are super dumb.

Run123. This is a parenting site in the uk. Not a site about aa and cults.

It is a list of comments made after the AA suicides in meetings.
It is very very sad.

I am not sure who made it but they are British, not American
Quite easy to find on Youtube.

Done. No one here is saying it's the only way. Just that for some it works. Can't you see the difference.

Jamboree. That's just evidence that some YouTube users are idiots. Surely.

thebossofme-HELLO-this site has many many threads about alcohol and drug addiction,AA being a cult is pertinent to the many parents that attend or send their minor children. There are many references to AA on this site!
Addiction effects the very core of families.

"hmm donewithit - i have met a guy in AA that i find a real inspiration, he has been sober for many years, is now in his late 70s and is respected by many many 'members' for his advice, his gentleness, his willingness to help others, his kindness and his common sense - i know he is a sponsor to several of the men in the room i use regularly - he is also a convicted killer, has served a life sentence and is out on life licence (a crime committed when blind drunk) - according to your thinking he is not eligible to be a sponsor, he is simply a 'drunk' - i think i prefer his philosophy to yours!"

Sounds like he made his history known and people that sponcees felt they could learn from him and went to him (knowing his past). Unfortunatley, many criminals (or other people) don't adhere to those 12 step principles. They lie about it and they use their claims to their advantage. It happens, and it happens enough that he or other criminals should not be able to sponsor people. Not saying he shouldn't be allowed to share his experience strenght and hope to a group and have a chance to recover himself. He and others that are criminals should not sponsor people.

My principles, meaning the ones that you know of (AA should be safe), are so bad? So awful?

AA could be a safe and bad recovering option for all adults. What is wrong with both? Why should I be referred to as drunk because I'd like to see both possible?

Yes it has many threads but it is not a site about aa which is what you called it.

And I don't know of any parent on here who has posted about sending a Minor child. So not relevant.

There are however many women here who have been helped by aa, myself included, and I think I speak for many of us when I say we find your posts patronising, ill informed, and offensive.

So keep posting if you want, but we are smarter than you realise and can see through your bullshit.

done - you are now insulting me further!, how dare you suggest that i would humiliate someone who has picked up a drink! how dare you assume that i would wield 'power' over a broken person, how dare you assume that i would cover up wrong-doings by anyone, be it rape or murder or violence or theft! in fact, how dare you judge me at all?

thebossofme-that was quite rude what you said to donewiththat.
If you want to go to AA-then go if you want-it is your choice.
But stop acting like we should not post how we feel. This is not a pro-AA thread in case you failed to realize that.

Dwi, how are you going to ensure that no criminals can be sponsors. Same question i asked jamboree earlier? Who's going to apply for the crb?

Run123. Yes it was rude. And deserved. Suck it up.

jesuswhatnext- you seem to be the one judging and insulting people.

Funny, your opinion of my name is dumb. So? You brought up names, not me.

Sure, you continue going to AA. I'm not trying to stop you. And I'll go on with opposing it and trying to make changes take place. I'll post in whatever public forum I like, and as often as I like. And I'll keep trying to raise awareness about how UNSAFE AA can be.

I am powerful in terms of my alcohol problem. I choose to not to drink anymore. My program works if I work it, also. It's wonderful!

Read the thread btw. The majority of posters are pro.

No. My opinion of you is that your pov is dumb.

Ooooh what a surprise jamboree calls then moms as well.

Blowing your cover rather rapidly guys

And I'm now going to stop feeding the trolls and let mnhq sort this out.

I wasn't judging "you" or suggesting that "you" humiliate people. Or did I try to suggest that "you" personally would try and cover up criminal acts. I do dare suggest that AA corporate is trying to cover up criminal acts by not addressing the claims of criminal behaviours.

how on earth have i insulted anyone?

Jwn leave them to it, I really think we are just feeding the trolls. Have reported the poster(s) to mnhq to check