to find the whole Broken Britain thing a load of horse crap?

[slightlystressed]

It's really irratating me now, Britain has never been "fixed".

I know Mr Smuggness will be our next PM, and I've been trying to avoid him, but he's frikin' EVERYWHERE! Using the Edlington case to highlight his theory was pretty poor aswell.

God, Im going to unplug the TV for a few days after the Election, his smuggness just might make me explode!

Here, here, OP. I prefer my politics to be served with a healthy dose of positivity and helpfulness, rather than constantly doing down our communities and inflaming people's concerns.

Shame on Mr Smugness!

This gets right on my tits this Broken Britain crap - we all know there are problems in society, but get a grip. It's like David Cameron and Gordon Brown are disappointed in us all, like we have fucked it all up in Britain.

It reminds me of Bertolt Brecht's writings:

After the uprising of the 17th June
The Secretary of the Writers Union
Had leaflets distributed in the Stalinallee
Stating that THE PEOPLE HAD FORFEITED THE CONFIDENCE OF THE GOVERNMENT
And could win it back only
By redoubled efforts. Would it not be easier
In that case for the government
To DISSOVE THE PEOPLE AND ELECT ANOTHER?

I completely agree with Groundhog. It was crazy having 24 hour opening times, alcohol available in supermarkets at a cheap price. Children encouraged to break school rules. Go easy on "rights" bring back old fashioned "duty" Bring back self discipline. One needs it when one is an adult.

How can the government 'bring back self discipline'?

Surely the motivation for that one is intrinsic?

The viewing figs for jeremy kyle etc are very low really - no more than 2 mill which is hardly a reflection of the entire country

i truly think the country is better now then when I was a teen/twenties - eg

• doctors and hospitals - only had good experiences
• peoples homes and cars are nicer and safer
• food is better for many - fruit and veg the norm - just watch delia to see how things have changed
• schools are amazing - even the local secondary here that has a lowish rep is so much better than when i went - better equip, sports stuff, teaches a better range of subjects etc
• you see loads of familes about on bikes, in lovely parks etc - we had a really rough park and hardly spent time with parents as so busy
• more dads out and about with their kids

Of course other countries also have awful stories - France has had some very tough immigration issues in the last three years, as has Germany. There have been awful child cases and murders in other countries of course.

Italy lauds its family values but more women here go into further ed. Yes the uk could do things better and we continue to strive for that but we do some things far better than in other countries

I'm not sure about 24 hour drinking, I rarely venture into town for a night out now, so I really can't comment on how things are now.

I do know that 20+ years, when closing time was 10.30, we went from pub to pub drinking whatever would get us most pissed, whether that was brown ale, red wine, 20/20, blastaways and 3 shots for a £. We drank them all in the course of a few hours. Then we had to queue for a taxi for at least an hour and all the fights and scuffles that ensued, or face the last bus home, neither of which was a nice experience and even less so for those who weren't out drinking I suppose.

From the off license there was Thunderbird wine and white lightning cider - gross, but they did the job, dirt cheap and they got us drunk.

Have longer licencing hours really made things worse, or is it just perception? Haven't young people in this country always gone out with the sole intention of getting paraletic? I think it's more to do with our culture than it is to do with opening hours, tbh.

Our village is supposed to be hen and stag centraland wearecentralbut tbh I dont see much of an issue unless you actually live next to the pubs- I know that avries though. Apart from the hilarious drunk students following a hedgehog photographing it and then screaming whenpicking it up becuase heck,it's spiky (pmsl) incident and the blood in the road one of course.....

Not much in almost 5 years is it?

It'smainly becuase the pubs are run well and there are no nightclubs I think,but it does show that its not the laws themselves at fault but the way individuals manage them

The thing i think has made it worse is we can no longer take responsibily for our own (sometimes stupid) actions and suffer the consequences of our actions.

We live in a blame society - even the teenagers drinking is because alcohol is too cheap or pubs are open to long. No it is because as a previous poster said young people will always push the limits and get drunk but now need 'something' to blame.

We cannot instil respect as if as adults we challenge their behaviour we may cause offence and certainly wont get backed up by society (the police) if we try and tackle such.

If we try and help someone in trouble we can get sued or blamed - we turn away.

I used to work in a hopital and we would always 'help' colleques - then we were told we were not 'allowed' to help lift patients as we were not covered if we hurt our backs - so instead we were forced to give a lower service.

Teachers dare not dicipline children and certainly other parents must not. Our school is no longer able to provide out of school care as it would mean the teachers all having to complete another course - they are only legally covered during school hours.

As a society we mistrust everyone - i had to have a police check to help in school - is it really worth the effort. If i offer to look after a friends child while they work i am breaking the law as i am not 'registered'!!!!

Its not worth a friend of mine working as she is a single parent and will be worse off and not get to bring up her own children up! That is just wrong and send the wrong message to her children imo.

Hospitals have to perform every test going in case they do happen to 'miss' the cause - at huge cost - we dont trust our doctors to do the best for us - we research and often demand the expensive drugs even before they have been completely trailed.

We always have to have someone else to blame.

So sorry but i would say we are too broken and it will take a lot of people to fight back and refuse to let this happen.
Sadly most of us are ok so dont have the passion to fight it.

I think part of the trouble is we worry so much about everything. Yes, of course there are pockets with very high crime rates and a generally unsafe environment.

But a lot of the things that cause handwringing these days were the stuff of shrugs and jokes two generations ago.

When dh got plastered and fell down the steps of the parental home as a teen, they thought it was quite a funny story (on a par with greatgrandma mopping up the cider and gin).

If two schoolboys had a fight in the playground, nobody thought this was extraordinary; it was what schoolboys did. These days they get into trouble.

Speaking of teachers not daring to discipline pupils always leaves me a bit puzzled: my experience is that pupils get disciplined these days (and even excluded) for things that wouldn't have raised an eyebrow when I was young.

I do think that there is a segment of society that behaves really badly and is proud to do so - showing off how revolting you can be has become an acceptable form of competition.

I think that's new. And there is a lot of condemnation of competitive good behaviour as snobbery.

Snobbery is when you think your lifrestyle makes you better than others, its not competitive if iots just done as a personalchoice.

HW I thought it registration was only required if you received renumeration? The reasoning behind the police situation was becuase they were deemed as received as getting benefits in kind, and that was being looked at by Ed Ballsanyway?Also I disciplinemy children and amallowed... and others can aswell aslong as they usedue restraint (a word is fine,a wallop no)

And the only way my ds3and ds1 were dx'd with their sn was becuase I challenged opinion that they would catch up; both have statements now,ione is in a SNU and one possibly will be at comp. So frankly doctors and other experts do not know everything- esp. at GP level, I frequently hear of horrid stories of misdiagnosis and terrible advice in my field (ASD).

Some parts of Britain have an issue but to say all of Britain is broken is clearly wrong,there are a great many parts that are not. Condemning everyone is ridiculous, instead condemn what is a problem and then it might get delat with,ablanket 'oh you're all crap' (AKA all Britain is broken) is self defeating in both its lack of specificity and complete absence of real solutions.

But then that is my biggest bugbear eprsonally in life: when people throw problems at mewithout real solutions.'teach respect' oh OK,great idea, now lets have some actualplans. Stop people goping into debt.. right well when 9% or so of British children are considered in severepoverty by figures out today (as in too poor to have basic essentials such as a coat or bed) then how do wedo that, exactly? How do we persuade mum that not heating the house at -3 or buying warm clothes is less important than avoiding the man from the provvy. And I don'tman Mum who still has her wine and cigs- I am talking about the ojnes who areout there doing their best; I know several in my life.

I can't honestly imagine myselfever voting tory, it'ssimply not compatible with my life experiences and mindset, even when we'reback on our feet in a few years why would I condemn someone stuck where we are now to the same sort of fear we have day to day about the future? but I would respect all parties more if they would cease with silly soundbites and actually address real issues individually.

And of course Riv would know how many pubs we have here if she ever visited

(only teasing )- besides they alllook sweet and picturesque by day before The Students descend LOL (and I dont mean DH)

We'll get thereone day Riv,you know what life is like sometimes....

Some lifestyles are better than others - that's not snobbery, it's common sense. Frittering all your money away on throwaway consumables rather than saving some is not a good lifestyle.

Its not morally better,thereare somethat are better but we'retalking the difference between criminal and average or philanthropist or average,some are socially more valued however but that is different.

If a lifestyle harms nobody else, it is fine. Within that there is a massive range.

It'd depend what you mean on fripperies and comsumables as well- I'll quyite happily spend my last £10 on a cinema ticket when all else is covered becuase there is no life enjoyment sat at home staring at the wall,and you are along time dead.

There is a lot ofresearch out there isn't there about class and delayed gratification, but I dorecall it is linked. I tink when you arevery poor there is a realsense ofgrab the goodtimes, becuase the bad times will rollaround again soon enough. I've been both very poor and confortable, and delayed gratification is so much easier when you know that it will be delayed, not taken away by job insecurity or a household crisis. That stops being delayed gratification and becomes prolonged poverty.

newgirl - you're right that Italy lauds its family values but they don't actually have any children. (1.1 child per couple!)

So, though they say they love families, they don't have them or provide much for them. A typical italian park is a pile of dog poo and a broken swing!

Whilst us Brits - who claim not to have family values - provide lovely play equipment in beautiful parks.

While I completely agree that you have to be rich enough to afford morality (lots of novels on that theme), I don't agree that if you harm no-one else, anything goes.

Not read all the threads but Mrs Thatcher has a lot to answer for. We don't 'make' anything anymore, nothing tangible so nothing to feel proud of at the end of your working day. She wanted everyone to become entrepreneurs. Not everyone is suited. All those primary industries she wiped out left communities with no heart, soul or hope.

And although everyone has so much compared to what previous generations had, it's still not enough. They need more money so how can they get it quick. Yeah, let's sue anyone and everyone so we can get our grubby paws on ready cash to alleviate our troubles rather than take the responsibility ourselves. Then we end up with Health and Safety in the extreme. No-one is allowed to do anything anymore for fear of being sued.

Let's sell all our social housing stock so only the dregs are left and eventually no-one will be able to afford their own house or get a decent council one.

Did anyone see the Kirsty Young programme last night? Very thought provoking.

VGS, didn't see that prog, which channel was it? It might be on replay.