to find the whole Broken Britain thing a load of horse crap?

[slightlystressed]

It's really irratating me now, Britain has never been "fixed".

I know Mr Smuggness will be our next PM, and I've been trying to avoid him, but he's frikin' EVERYWHERE! Using the Edlington case to highlight his theory was pretty poor aswell.

God, Im going to unplug the TV for a few days after the Election, his smuggness just might make me explode!

lol @ chips and chops being thrown

Labour tried to reduce child poverty by channelling money towards young families and single parents - now people are saying TAKE THAT AWAY! It that REALLY what we want? More children living in poverty? Because that is the direct correlation.

I think this whole "Broken Britain" malarky is bollocks. How, HOW do you break a country?

And I think that using horrific events, like the Edlington attacks and Baby P's death, to further your political ends, is hideous. Really, really low. And arguably, if one was to lower one's self to his level, you could argue that the Jamie Bulger case was the Conservative's fault - it happened while John Major was in government. The boys came from horrific backgrounds as well.

At the end of the day, evil people do evil things, regardless of who's in government.

'Well of course if I believed this country was broken, my first course of action would be to vote for the party who told us there is no such thing as society. '

Here, here!

ha ha upandrunning, I assumed because I hadn't come across you, you hadn't come across me..

And there was me thinking I could charm you for weeks, and then over a glass of Chianti quietly drop into the conversation my love for Nick Griffin...

So..... is it over before it began....?

OOh guess what DP

I'm going to do a training course in MArch for an organisation working against racism and the rise of the BNP through education.

Now, if I find them anti free speech I will walk out immediately but I wanted you to know your posts inspired me to it. Thank you.

Though sometimes I think that is entirely your aim and you are a freedom fighter demonstrating the horrors of BNP politics,in which case damn you do a fine job woman!

This 'broken' 'not working' stuff is what politicians have been saying for ever. I'm old enough to remember many election campaigns and Britain has always been crap according to each and every one and always will be...no party is going to campaign on the ticket of "Britain is really doing rather well but let us have a stab and we'll see if we can make it ever so slightly nicer".....

I hate the negativity politics brings. People believe it, that's what gets me. Yes there are problems but there is so much great stuff happening every day, and of course between the politicians and the media there is a conspiracy of silence about that - because publicising the good stuff it doesn't serve either of the agendas there.

'Labour tried to reduce child poverty by channelling money towards young families and single parents - now people are saying TAKE THAT AWAY! It that REALLY what we want? More children living in poverty? Because that is the direct correlation.'

peopleneed tolook at what happens if benefits are removed frompeople.

If you'just'remove it from the most vulnerable you cause mass distress, solidify dependency (becuase starting work costs- chidlcare deposits, first month expenditure, etc.... noteven taking intoaccount themesspeople get itno when they accepttemp work and then it takes the Government another 6months to re-process their benefits).... look at what happens if you pull cash out of the syste,..Rents become unaffordable and mortgages (andpeople on IS etc do have them if they have been made redundant or become ill)become unaffordable.Demand on social housing rises significantly,asdoes uptake of benefits such as HB and CYC which many don't get due to the prop up given by TC's. Landlords struggle tofill hosuing becuase people have less cash in their pocket and it doesn'tcover the buy-tolet: house prices driop and peopleare pushed into negative equity.The ecopnomy will satrt to cumble as peoplecannot meet their essential outgoings let alone the extra bits so the businesses that did survive the current recession get an extra hit....

I think DC will get in, I thnk he will cut my incomings enormously through loss of TCs and that we will be amde homeless. i've yet to come up with an escape route though. The fear of it does reduce me totears on occasion becuase I amnot used to complete helplessness, but until DH qualifies we'refucked either way, and DH doensn't finish until 2012. Bloody frightening.

That's great Peachy...I have started my degree in PP&E....will take me a while, but I'll get it.....something I've wanted to do for years....but with 4 dc it would have been virtually impossible....I have alot more time now all at full time school.

Wellif all 4 were at school and able to access childcare I'd be looking at SW instead of the MA, but then my radical sidew ould have to be put to sleep so heck,maybe there is an upside to benefits dependency after all?

You'lldowellon the degree. I don't support your purported aims, but you do have skills.

God no,my ExP was the double of him- never again

Do you think I could get a t-shirt printed saying @I don'tdo shiny headed tores' towear on a parallel with the charming one of a bloke I know that states 'I dont do mingers' (clearly the appropriate response to that is never look in the mirror when you'rewanking,then)

You don't even need to read Dickens - read Orwell, for example, and then ask yourselves whether it was the days of the three-day week and power strike that were the golden days, or Thatcher's era...there's always been an underclass, left to rot and blamed for everything. The idea that this is due to a culture of dependency and too-high welfare payments makes me laugh. As Cory said, Sweden doesn't look too broken from here, does it?

I'm in Australia, and we have generous welfare payments, universal health care and a cost of living that means that you can live in a pleasant (small) city in a 3 bedroom house with a garden,and eat fresh food, while on benefits. And it's not perfect, but it's not spiralling into crime and degradation either.

The Tory line seems to be that the answer is to 'cut off the drip' - but that's just ridiculous. If you want a functioning society, it's the people at the bottom who need support, not the others.

"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others."

Groundhogs on p1 I agree wholeheartedly!!!

I think the major thing lacking in our society is good old fashioned RESPECT.

No one is polite anymore, and it really isn't difficult to teach - my ds was signing 'please' and 'thank you' before he could speak. Schools should be continuing this education as they did when I was at school - I wouldn't have dreamed of talking back at school!

And all this litigious nonsense such as homeowners being taken to court because a burgular damaged his hand on the window he broke... C'mon...!!!

It;s all part of the same thing - RESPECT. So is the expenses scandal - no respect for the system - just flagrant me me me.

Rant over...!

It is no doubt a massive generalisation but the rudest people I encounter on a daily basis are OAPs, not children.

Some things are broken..television for a start. It takes advantage of the most needy by pilloring them on television.

We gave up our TV a few years ago because I couldn't bear reality TV shows and also felt that the newscasters only showed 'shocking' news.

However, society is as it's even been but with better health, longer life expectancy, generally more opportunities for people, friendlier relationships between children and parents and less demonising of gay people. (And other groups that I can't think of)

Agree with Riven's point about airing dirty linen; look at Ireland in the 1950s...

I hope you shouted a loud 'don't mention it' to them, Riven.

I'm always wary of the whole idea that things were better way back when.

But there are certainly problems that we can't simply ignore.
For one thing the state are supposed to look after 60,000 children in its care, and frankly they are the worst parents ever.

I also worry about the pervasive feeling of entitlement...

I'd agree with the OP. the way i see it is that the world is a scary place when you are in your late teens/twenties but you feel invincible so fuck it you're not scared by it. As you get older you become more vulnerable (and influenced by 24 hour polemic media reporting) and have more to lose (family/career/house) and you can no longer connect with the younger generation so their crimes seem somehow more violent and random than when you were young and you look back through rose-tinted specs and eulogise about a nostalgic time gone by when people respected each other and commnities looked out for each other, Which is frankly bollox. There's never been a perfect time and even in the so called golden era's there was random violence and attacks and in fact probably a good deal more racially motivated ones. There was far more institutional abuse and accepted discrimination and in 30 years the people will still be going on about the youth of today and I'll be in my 50's talking about how i remember what it was like back in the naughties when people respected each other and communities looked out for each other.

"And all this litigious nonsense such as homeowners being taken to court because a burgular damaged his hand on the window he broke... C'mon...!!!"

Can I ask where these cases are happening and being successful. I'm not trying to have a go but with the GBH thread last week about the man who battered a burglar with a cricket-bat a lot of people seemed to be suggesting that somehow burglars now have more rights than the victims etc. and I'm beginning to wonder where people are getting these ideas from? As far as I'm concerned such cases are myths drummed up by the kind of people who shout "it's pc gone mad i tells ya" as I have never seen one, any cases involving burglar litigation involve specifically set traps etc. but I've heard it repeated so often I'm beginning to think I may have missed some high profile cases.

As for the respect issue it just doesn't hold true for me. How are the societies of yester year which were openly mysoginistic,homophobic and racist in anyway more respectful?

Actually posh people are very rude (e.g. Bristol students)! (Along with old people who - I would like to point out - don't need as much respect now because they probably didn't fight in the war. Too young)

At University, it was the privately educated bunch who always chucked up after formal dinners, not worrying that the minimum wage cleaners would have to clean it up.

Gosh! getting more left wing as I type...