To DEMAND the birth I want not what I have been told I can have??

[BigMomma3]

No am not selfish or reckless or irresponsible btw, but as this WILL be my last baby (4th) I want a good experience without the intervention of harrassed midwives and arrogant doctors that I have had before. I hate the feeling of losing control over what to do with my own body and my experience of staying in hospital after birth has been terrible . I have been told I am high risk so will have to give birth in hospital, cannot use birthing pool etc la la la. The reasons I am high risk are:

1. Previous pre-eclampsia at 39+5 weeks (1st baby 13 years ago) so was induced with no pain relief (too terrified to have an epidural), very painful, midwife telling me to quieten down and trying to get me to lay on my back with legs in stirrups (most indignified way to give birth ever). Pre-eclampsia may or may not happen again, even 'low' risk women can get this.
2. DD2 had serious problems which we found out about at 30 weeks so was stillborn after doctor did a sweep in induce labour(again doctor grabbed my legs to get me in stirrups, telling me that I should be looking forward to having this baby (did not bother reading notes before she came in) . Now they have put down that I have a history of premature birth due to this when it was initiated on purpose . Obviously any problems with this baby would be picked up before the birth so it's really irrelevant.
3. History of twins (DSs1&2) - why does that make me high risk? Obviously I would not go into labour not knowing whether I am having 1 or 2 babies so that should not really affect the birth either.
4. Previous c section - that was elective due to twins being in wrong places - nobody will know if I will need one again until the last few weeks or so of the pregnancy.

Obviously if I have any issues with blood pressure, heart rates etc I will do as I'm told but I object to being told by my midwife 'oooh I doubt they'll let you do that' when I said I wanted as 'back to basic's' a birth as possible with an ideally, HOME VBAC water birth. So AIBU to march into my consultant's office next week and tell him how I want it to be and stick to my guns unless problems arise that need intervention??

Hello BC - they deleted my last post - probably for telling Richardgere to - ahem - go forth and multiply.

The site you need for all the research to back you up is here. It's a homebirth site but one of the best out there as it gathers together all the research and gives you hard facts rather than the shroud waving opinions you may be getting. Hope that helps.

Badly spelled link it's here

It is not the scar on your abdomen they worry about, it is the scar on your uterus. The risk that this will rupture is tiny but hopsitals do not like risks!

I am afraid sometimes, when dealing with hospitals you do need to demand your rights. Asking politely just does not work in my expeirence, especially when you are at your most vulnerable.

Is there any way you could afford an independent midwife? If not, in your shoes I would insist that I was having a homebith. It may be that faced with you insisting this is your choice they may agree to the midwife unit.

Bigmomma If you want a homebirth then make sure before you speak to the MW and Consultant you read up on all the info on the homebirth website so if they try to put you off you've got all the info to hand to back your position up. There's a woman called Sheila Kitzinger who was the pioneer of the homebirth movement and it might be worth getting hold of one of her books too and there's a home birth book that's really helpful on amazon.

I was booked for a homebirth (I transferred in after 16 hours due to failure to progress) and one thing I would really recommend is seing if your local children's centre does pregnancy yoga as it's really important that you get the baby into a good position. My DS was back to back and the midwives really stick to the 1cm per hour rule and try to convince you to transfer if you don't progress that quickly which is almost impossible with a back to back baby.

If you can afford it I would definitely think about getting an independant midwife or doula, for my next one I definitely will be as I think they can make all the difference in keeping you at home. For me it was really important to have a room seperate from the midwives to labour in as with two midwives and all the equipment it can be just as intrusive and distracting at home if you can't get away from the widwives and get on with it on your own.

And the hypnobirthing stuff is really good, you can buy a cd online. It might be worth contacting the NCT, by me they have a homebirth support group who were really supportive.

Good luck with whatever you choose and remember they cannot force you to have a hospital birth if you decide not to, it's illegal.

Ladies - great advice - it's really helpful (apart from RichardGere of course ).

Scary that someone had a rupture 4 years after a c-section.

I have decided I will push for the MLU (assuming all is well) as that's the best of both worlds and within the hospital (or threaten HB!). Am worried that the midwives will be a bit off with me as they may think I should not be there but hopefully will get a supportive one. I will get the hynobirthing CD as well.

Now I have decided, I can relax and will be firm but polite with the consultant next week. I think it was the feeling of being treated like a little girl and being told what was 'allowed' and 'not allowed' by the midwife that has had me steaming.

I use the Mongan method for hypnobirthing - worked a treat, quite a long labour but no pain (except for when I got in the bath/tried to not push because I was told not to and my whole body was screaming PUSH).

I hated water during birth, it felt like slime. I know lots of women like it, but it isn't a given.

Sometimes you do have to "demand" things, because you are ignored if you ask nicely. You are not a little girl, you are a woman with experience of childbirth and your body. Listen to their advice and reasons and then make up your own mind.

From personal experience, I would not want to have a VBAC at home. I had an ecs first time due to pre-eclampsia. My consultant when I was pg with DC2 was very pro VBAC and supportive. I was monitored in the hospital, but allowed to move around quite freely. However, it is a good job I was, as I went from 10cm, all going swimmingly, to being rushed to theatre in a matter of seconds. DH nearly missed the whole thing because it was such a panic noone had time to tell him what was happening. My scar ruptured and if I hadn't been monitored I would have a very sad story to tell. I am not scare-mongering at all - but I think that you have to listen when you are told you are high-risk. It can be for good reason. Why would you want to risk any problems? Hope all goes well for you.

Go along with whatever consultant says, they will act on your best interest and your babies better being safe with backup equipment goodluck with it all

if it's not been mentioned, please get in touch with AIMS

i have been lucky enough to meet Saint beverley beech at a midwifery lecture day and then to have her personally answer an email i sent regarding a breech birth / el c.s v VB query

AIMS will help you draft letters and find ways to get whjat you want

if you are making an informed decison an d know rhe risks and benefits, then go for it

I dont think richard gere was being spiteful just had a valid point.

OP, I think you've made the right decision wanting to go for MLU. The possible problems associated with VBAC (uterine rupture) mainly, can be very dangerous and imo not worth the risk, and the weakness in the uterine wall will always be there. Although home births are positive for the vast majority, when they go wrong they can go very wrong.

There is no reason why you need to be immobile or in stirrups in hospital, so definitely discuss that with them. I'm sure the midwives will be helpful - their training is geared towards avoiding intervention. I know doctors can be arrogant, but the main thing they care about is your health and the baby's. As HBs are cheaper for the NHS, they would approve it if they thought the risk was minimal. Going for an HB just to 'show them' is nonsensical.

PLEASE, STICK TO YOUR GUNS AND DON'T BE BULLIED!

I had my first baby last year at the age of 40 so you can imagine the 'risk' I was considered to be! But I was having a home birth no matter what and I had to fight for that even during the second stage of labour - I had to speak to the hospital in between contractions, with them using emotional blackmail to make me go in ("you do realise you're putting other mothers at risk by making our midwife come out to you" they said). My birth was natural, drug free, and a lovely experience and I'm so glad I didn't give in, YOU DESERVE TO BIRTH WHERE YOU CHOOSE.

I also strongly recommend reading Dr Michel Odent's book about natural birth and how medical intervention often is the cause of labour problems. Our bodies have innate intelligence and know how to birth a baby.

Giving birth has wrongly become a medical matter, the only reason they want you to go in is because it makes it easier for them.

Good luck.

Yeah right doctors can be arrogant,hormonal women can be downright thick....wake up and smell the coffee love, think of your baby remember its not alabout you you you....

I tried for a vbac with my second baby and he had to be constantly monitored (I was induced after being overdue by about 12 days), this is probably why they won't let you use the birthing pool. My second unfortunately ended up as another section, this time an emergency one as the placenta abrupted.

I don't think you are being unreasonable wanting to be in charge of the birth and not wanting the performance it has been in the past; however, I would, if necessary, ask for second or even third opinions from doctors as regards the risks.

My third child was a section and I was told in the UK and here in Dubai that it would have to be a section. I actually went into labour early and ended up having another emergency one; to be told that my scar was about to rupture. I was glad I was in hospital and not at home!

Good luck with whatever you decide.

"I also strongly recommend reading Dr Michel Odent's book about natural birth and how medical intervention often is the cause of labour problems. Our bodies have innate intelligence and know how to birth a baby."

I haven't read this book, I'm sure it's very good. But in this case, the whole 'natural' thing has had a bit of a setback because of the previous C section, which means that OP does now face risks that someone who hadn't had a c section wouldn't have. Of course it's down to the individual, but there's no sense in ignoring certain realities.

BigMomma, I talked my way into the midwife-led unit at Tommy's when the knee-jerk reaction was 'oh, you have a label, you'll have to go to the consultant side'. (Due to an existing medical condition, nowt to do with pregnancy.)

I contacted the head of midwifery and spoke to her about my health, not a generic person with epilepsy (which happens to cover a huge variety of experiences, there's no such thing as an 'average' person with epilepsy). Once we'd had that conversation, she was happy for me to use the unit.

So if I were you, I'd find out who the head of midwifery is and ask for an appointment to discuss your particular situation, rather than the label.

darkandstormy your comments really aren't helpful....

Personal experience time... if you want the MLU then go in there DEMANDING a HB and then 'allow' them to talk you down to the MLU

I too have spoken to Beverley Beech at AIMS and she is absolutely magnificent. I thoroughly recommend you speak with her.

Remember, ANYTHING that a health care professional does to you without your express, informed consent is ASSAULT. This even includes taking your temperature or blood pressure. I would make sure that your birth plan includes the fact you know this, and that you WILL press for assault charges against anyone who does anything without your informed consent. Then forward this to the Supervisor of Midwives at the hospital, to your consultant and the director of the hospital.

The thing they are most worried about is the previous c section. I would recommend you join a yahoo group called UKVBACHBAC and post your OP there and you will get bags of useful information from ladies who really know their stuff and have achieved the birth they wanted.

Good luck! x

Another vote for sticking to your guns.

Personally I consider home birth to be too high risk to contemplate, but once I made it clear at the hospital that I would not accept continuous monitoring they agreed I could go to MLU and try for a waterbirth when I went for my VBAC. And in fact everyone was supportive in the end. As long as you are prepared to accept intervention if this pregnancy stops being straighforward surely there is no real problem.

Forgot to say, I don't know who you have seen so far but I found "normal" midwives and some junior doctors (i.e. not consultants) not all that helpful, since they don't have the clout to do anything other than repeat policy. Your consultant, the consultant midwife or whoever runs the MLU might well be more supportive.

do thinks it's sad to hear all about what mothers want/ demand when it is, after all, about delivering a healthy baby.

That's not a personal attack on you, OP, as you are asking for advice.

But I agree with another poster who said we've gone too far overboard with it being about what mothers want and what their rights are rather than what is best for the baby.

Sorry, Bigmomma, just seen the MLU decision - sounds like a good compromise.

I'd also like to say that consultants by their very nature don't get to see much in the way of normal birth. They are the specialists, they are the ones that we go to when there are problems so largely that is what they deal with. Problems.

I'd contact your supervisor of midwives.

When I did my research I weighed up the risk of VBAC (1% chance of rupture) against all the risks of a caesarean section (listed on the nhs direct website) and decided that actually I preferred the risks of VBAC.

op remind me again what are exactly your reasons for wanting home birth.My main concern would be the continued management of your birth it could end up being an ambulance job.. in which case lets hope the paramedics are well equipped.Never mind Dr Odent and his book.

Oh and the outcome for the baby was also key in my decision. I weighed up the chance of respiratory issues post caesarean section for the baby against the chance of uterine rupture in VBAC. The chances of respiratory issues was higher.

Being in control of your birth and getting the best outcome for your baby are not mutually exclusive. I feel saddened that people believe I put my baby second as I really did not.

By the way I am just trying to be to the point .I am really sorry about your loss but as others have pointed out is there any way you can go to a different unit.I myself had two c sections one which went completely wrong, I was sewn up and had to be reopened due to internal bleeding.However the care of the hospital etc was fab. Please think very carefully about these choices.take care