To DEMAND the birth I want not what I have been told I can have??

[BigMomma3]

No am not selfish or reckless or irresponsible btw, but as this WILL be my last baby (4th) I want a good experience without the intervention of harrassed midwives and arrogant doctors that I have had before. I hate the feeling of losing control over what to do with my own body and my experience of staying in hospital after birth has been terrible . I have been told I am high risk so will have to give birth in hospital, cannot use birthing pool etc la la la. The reasons I am high risk are:

1. Previous pre-eclampsia at 39+5 weeks (1st baby 13 years ago) so was induced with no pain relief (too terrified to have an epidural), very painful, midwife telling me to quieten down and trying to get me to lay on my back with legs in stirrups (most indignified way to give birth ever). Pre-eclampsia may or may not happen again, even 'low' risk women can get this.
2. DD2 had serious problems which we found out about at 30 weeks so was stillborn after doctor did a sweep in induce labour(again doctor grabbed my legs to get me in stirrups, telling me that I should be looking forward to having this baby (did not bother reading notes before she came in) . Now they have put down that I have a history of premature birth due to this when it was initiated on purpose . Obviously any problems with this baby would be picked up before the birth so it's really irrelevant.
3. History of twins (DSs1&2) - why does that make me high risk? Obviously I would not go into labour not knowing whether I am having 1 or 2 babies so that should not really affect the birth either.
4. Previous c section - that was elective due to twins being in wrong places - nobody will know if I will need one again until the last few weeks or so of the pregnancy.

Obviously if I have any issues with blood pressure, heart rates etc I will do as I'm told but I object to being told by my midwife 'oooh I doubt they'll let you do that' when I said I wanted as 'back to basic's' a birth as possible with an ideally, HOME VBAC water birth. So AIBU to march into my consultant's office next week and tell him how I want it to be and stick to my guns unless problems arise that need intervention??

Well i had similar experience in that i was told twice not to have hb

First time baby was going to be so big i couldnt possibly give birth to baby naturally - i was at risk of shoulder dystocia (sp?) When i questionned her she got very cross and couldnt give me any answers on reasons or statistics etc - i ignored her and went with my instincts and listened to my mw who was very experienced and sensible - I gave birth to DS2 at home with gas & air - he was 8lb 9oz

DS3 - i was told i had GD although none of the risk factors and i had a small bump - again Consultant refused point blank to listen to me - i also had a registrar sit and tell me that i was going to have a HUGE baby - she had at this point not examined me, not read my notes and could not actually explain any risks whatsoever to me - she i think was nq. I again spoke to my mw (same one) and we agreed as long as i did not go over dates she would support hb - he arrived on my due date at home weighing a massive 7lb 13oz

My story is in more detail on homebirth.org - under diabetes section.

I was lucky i had a supportive mw who was wonderful but i did feel very stressed and began having nightmares and stopped sleeping properly with the thought of going to Hospital to have them (DS1 was a shit experience because of the incompetent and uncaring bullying staff)

can you afford an independent midwife? Sounds like you need her expertise, together with your resovle to get the birth you want.

FWIW I had VBAC for ds2 in hospital, and then homebirth for dc3 (almost in water, not enough time!). I knew all the risks and weighed them up.

You sound well-informed, but did you know you can choose who is/ isn't near you at the birth?

I like Muppetgirl's suggestion for option a and option b.

Personally I wouldn't take the risk, with your history.

However, I would look into going to another hospital - I was induced but there was never any question of stirrups etc and although the aftercare was pretty damn lousy, the birth itself was au untraumatic emergency cs (if that's not an oxymmoron!) and I was glad that I'd been monitored etc as I had complications that meant DD would never have been born alive if I'd soldiered on regardless.

And it may be bad form (?) to refer to another poster's experiences but I have to say when I read your OP I thought of Riven and her DD2. Perhaps her story might be another perspective?

But isn´t it possible to have the birth you want in hospital?

I would just like to say that I had a great hospital birth.

Gave birth on all fours as I refused to get up onto the bed.

The midwives were great-kneeling on the floor behind me trying to see what was going on

I think the difference being that there was no intervention necessary.

But that could be the same for you this time.

i sympathise with you wanting to have no intervention, but if i were in your shoes i would go for the hospital, but be in control of how you want the birth to go in there.

then you can have the intervention if absolutely necessary.

Your body, your choice.

As long as you have been informed of all the possible risks I think as an adult you should be able to then choose what you would like to do (and of course bear any consequences of the wrong choice if that were to happen).

I am planning a homebirth after much discussion with midwives etc. I accept that I will not have immediate access to medical equipment but that is my risk to take and I personally believe the benefits to me outweigh the risks.

It is most excellent that we have the medical resources we do in the West and I am grateful for them, but we also have the freedom to choose not to use them if we like.

Another voice for trying to get booked into a more sensible hospital- or negotiating with your present one as to what kind of birth you would like if the worst comes to the worst.

With a history of pre-eclampsia, I personally wouldn't go for a homebirth. Having had it before is an indicator that you are more likely to develop it again. I once knew someone who suddenly went into eclamptic fitting during labour; neither she or the baby would have survived if she hadn't been in hospital, and it was very touch and go as it was.

Hospital but in control would be my choice.

Whlist your ideal is a home VBAC I would gentle disagree and say your ideal is having a healthy baby at the end of this. Medical professionals can be over-cautious in births (trying to be as nice as possible to medical professionals!) but that doesn't mean they don't always have a reason for their recommendations. All I can say is that it is possible to have a back to basic birth in hospital, you just have to have faith in yourself and, if possible, an advocate (IM, Doula, Husband) who knows your wishes and can support you and handle the staff during your labour. you only need to stay in hospital 6 hours if you do have a un-assisted birth so don't need to stay in if you don't want to.

Good Luck and here is another vote for hypnobirthing.

BigMomma3, of course you have the right to the birth you want!. Having said that with a history of problems it may be a good idea to have a back up plan for how you want the birth the go in hospital.

If you DO end up in a hospital and/or being induced my advice after 3 pregnancies with preeclampsia and induction in a hosptial is to keep the staff out of it as much as possible. They dont NEED to constantly monitor your baby in most situations - even in my most risky birth I have had monitoring for 20 minuted out of each hour PLUS you dont need to lie still on the bed for this you CAN move around - lying still makes it easier for the machine to pick it up but it works if you move,sit up on all fours or whatever.. (I was moving for most of mine).

I tend to just get on with things in my own little corner of the hospital because then by the time I call them I am about to give birth and they cant screw it up with procedures and (probably well meaning) advice. Obviously if you want pain relief it wont work but I have to be honest the only time I have felt I wanted pain relief is when there have been midwives around fussing- on my own I have felt fine.

OP I think you need to sort the wheat from the chaff in terms of advice you have been given.

Your DD's stillbirth and your history of twins are pretty much irrelevant in terms of your risk for this pregnancy, assuming you are having one healthy, baby.

The risk of pre eclampsia doesn't seem overly relevant given that you had two subsequent deliveries without developing pre eclampsia (although obviously DD2 was born early and I presume the twins were too?)

I have no idea about the rates of sucessful VBAC - although there are no doubt some experts on here who will be able to advise, but personally this would be my biggest concern.

What about a home from home unit? I had DS1 in a lovely unit attached to the maternity unit of my hospital. This may alleviate your concerns about stirups/positions etc.

Nothing very helpful to add but I'm going to have a rant anyway!

I had pre-elampsia with dc2 and therefore was told I had to be consultant led for dc3. From this time on the management of my pregnancy was totaly dictated by this. My midwife was not allowed to give me a sweep because I was consultant led, I could not go in the midwife birthing rooms because I was consultant led, I could not have the water birth I wanted because I was consultant led, I had to have the heart monitor on continually because that was the policy for consultant led rooms.

I never had pre-eclampsia, non of the above were because I needed them medically they were all just because I was consultant led for my pregnancy.

I try not to get too wound up about it because my labour was so quick it didn't make much difference in the end which room I gave birth in and I have a lovely healthy baby. But if ever I did have another I would be more prepared and assertive about what I want.

Agree with everyone else on here, do your research, way up the risks and then calmly tell everyone how it is going to be.

It's early weeks in your pregnancy and you don't necessarily have to decide where you want to give birth yet. I would recommend a doula. I know they can be expensive but my DD had a doula who was still training and did not cost as much. She will act as an advocate and help you to write a birth plan. You can have a birthing pool at home - DD bought hers from Ebay.

Remember it's your party and you invite who you want. I hope it all goes well for you and you have a peaceful HB. And please try not to stress.

And RichardGere you're talking shite.

if I were in your situation I'd seriously look at getting an independant midwife and trying for a homebirth.

I'd worry that even of you got very stroppy and demanded the birth you wanted, that if something did happen in labour you'd not trust that the care givers were on your side and were aiming for the birth you wanted IYSWIM.

I'd want to have a midwife (either NHS or private) that I knew and trusted to get the birth I wanted if at all possible. Not sure you'll find that in the NHS though, depends very much on local attitudes.

Good luck

Nancy - twins were born electively at 37 weeks so on time with no pre-eclampsia. I would have liked them to stay in longer but the doctors were afraid I would go into labour spontaneously with Twin 1 being breech and all.

I think the reason I'm going to request a HB is because my midwife said I would not be 'eligible' for the new midwife led unit attached to my local hospital which is touted as 'a home from home unit with two birthing pools with a separate identity to that of the labour ward, offering a more relaxed, friendly and safe place for women to give birth in, which has been shown to facilitate normal labour and birth without the need for medical intervention.'.

The VBAC is probably the biggest concern but the c-section was almost 8 years ago so it's not like it has'nt had time to heal properly and you can't even see the scar now! I could understand it if it had been recent. It's not like it would be my 1st VB either as I had two prior ones.

I stumbled across Marie Mongan's Hynobirthing book, it is a revelation and has really excited me which is why I want this birth to be different. It is so true what she says about being more stressed in hospital and therefore being in more pain and intervention leading to more intervention and so on. I guess if you're lucky enough to have a unhurried, supportive, calm midwife, your birth experience would be better.

Since I've become pregnant I have become hooked on those birth programmes on the Discovery Channel and they just make me cringe!

I would not put the baby in any danger whatsover (obviously!) but if I get to 37 weeks and all my obs are fine, I don't think it would be unreasonable to get what I want rather than what the doctors want so their asses are covered! Any woman who is low risk could have a home birth and develop complications so I would not focus on that argument. It's the same as saying that ALL women should give birth in hospitals!

I can really understand why you would like a calm birth, where you feel more in control. This is not an unreasonable thing to want at all and it is probable possible too given that you had normal births prior to your CS (assuming no PET).
I think YABU in saying that you want to 'DEMAND' the birth you want. I am sure you wouldn't actually be rude enough to 'demand' but it does suggest that you feel really angry with the medical staff and resentful. You also mentioned doctors covering their arses. I think you need to try to calm down a bit and try to understand the situation from their point of view too. Obviously, if anything goes wrong at the time of a baby's birth, it is absolutely devastating for the family. However, it is also a very upsetting experience for all the staff involved too and one which they will feel personally as the professionals who were supposed to be responsible for delivering your baby safely. Also, as a society, we are very litigious nowadays. There is a culture of blaming someone when things go wrong or an accident happens. Obstetrics is the medical field with the highest rate of litigation so, of course, this is a very real consideration for any staff involved. It is an unfortunate situation, but that is the situation.
I feel that, if you considered things from the staff's perspective too, it might lead to a more fruitful discussion rather than an antagonistic one.
I hope you achieve the birth you want

Oh some of those birthing programs are awful! Especially the american ones. Everyone seems to be flat on their back with an epidural from the moment they are admitted and then end up having a cs because, suprise suprise, the baby has not moved down! At least things are not usually that bad in the uk.

Hi BigMomma
If it's any help at all, I've had a water birth and a not-water birth. The water thing is massively over-rated if you ask me. It's really not all that great, people go on about it as though it was the answer to prayer. Personally I felt:
Shrivelled with wet
Isolated from dh as he didn't want to hop in with me (can't think why!)
Bored as couldn't do anything except bob about, unable to flick though a magazine as too sopping wet.
Plus the poor midwife had to scrabble about in water and dark to try and figure out what was going on.
I also felt the hot water was speeding up the contractions rather faster than my body could cope with them, so it was all very intense and too much.

in the end I got out and gave birth squatting on the bed, as per the previous time.

Is a big fuss about nothing, if you ask me.

For what it's worth, I would try another hospital first and maybe forget the home birth thing, sounds like your hb request will just wind everyone up and surround yourself with aggro and bad karma from the professionals, is it really worth the battle? I've had lovely births in hospital and hey, you don't have to clear up afterwards OR do the cooking, lot to be said for it!
Best of luck with it all, would love to know how it all works out for you.

"I think the reason I'm going to request a HB is because my midwife said I would not be 'eligible' for the new midwife led unit attached to my local hospital which is touted as 'a home from home unit with two birthing pools with a separate identity to that of the labour ward, offering a more relaxed, friendly and safe place for women to give birth in, which has been shown to facilitate normal labour and birth without the need for medical intervention.'"

hmm, I am sure there is SOMEONE on here who had the exact same problem as the above and she was able to get round this by a detailed birth plan signed off by her, the midwife and the doc. I will try my best to remember who it was so you can get some advice from her.

*goes off to explore advanced search.

BigMomma sorry for your loss. Just to reassure you I had a hbac in November last year. I had a homebirth for DD1 in 2004 (at term +10), an emergency section for DTs in 2007 (at 31 weeks, had polyhydramnios and DS1 died shortly after birth due to having no trachea) and a homebirth for DD2 IN 2009. I was classed as high risk due to previous section/history of twins/DT1s problems/age (am 40 next week)/and fact that 3 pregnancies/deliveries in last 5 years. Things in my favour were a previous vaginal delivery.

My consultant (surprisingly) said he would support a MW led care delivery in hospital but would not support a homebirth. See what your consultant suggests when yo have seen them, don't just assume they will be anti MW led care. My MW did a risk assessment and booked me for a homebirth on the understanding that if there was any sign of trouble I would be in hospital quicksticks. Risk assessment just ran through potential problems and solutions. I was healthy and baby was head down, may have been different if any other issues but as there weren't I felt confident to go for it.

Part of me wanting to be at home was due to feelings re DTs birth. Wanted to be calmer and more in control and away from reminders of DS1 dying. Had a successful homebirth in November with TENs and paracetamol and have a beautiful 8 week old daughter who is just perfect.

Sometimes people think a homebirth is refusing medical intervention, you should see the equipment the MWs had, there was everything they needed all in my living room. I did not refuse medical help, I just wanted it in my house and partly (IMO) because of that did not really need any help.

Would you like me to send you the VBAC book handbook as will not need it any more. Good luck

ok don't think this is the exact thread I am looking for, but there is some advice on how to get the VBAC YOU want if you do decide to go to hospital.
Are-these-normal-restriction-for-a-VBAC

Also I think Lulumama sister got signed off for a MLU birth despite the fact she was highrisk so it might be worth seeing if she is about to talk to.

The best thing to do is make sure you are well informed, if the MW says you can't do something see if you can talk to a consultant or the head of midwifery.

BigMomma3, we are being cautious re the c section as the prime time for the incision to rupture is during labour itself.

So while you are right in thinking that it has had time to heal etc, the strain of contractions can cause a rupture. This is why they tend not to induce after a section, as the contractions sometimes some on thick & fast, therefore more risk of rupture.

My friend's first section was 4 yrs ago, she laboured & suffered a ruptured incision, which wasn't detected until they did a repeat section.

Bigmomma I am not sure whether your previous section would affect this but even if you have a hospital birth there is nothing to make you go into hospital until you feel you must.

I laboured at home (mostly in the bath) for 17 hours before I went into the hospital at which point I was ready to push. I spent a little under an hour pushing and left 6 hours later (although I'd have gone three hours after delivery if They would have signed me out then). Hardly felt like I was there at all and a very good way to do things IMHO.