to be angry at the rejction letter my friend got?

[KayloHalo]

My gay friend, a male, recently enquired about becoming a midwife.

He received a letter back saying (i don't it know word for word) unfortunately we would be unable to accept you onto the midwifery course as we currently only accept ladies.

I'm sure there was more to the letter than that but that was the bit that upset him.

I'm probably biased but I think he would be a great midwife - midhusband? - because he has a great bedisde manner - he's hillarious when you need a boost/cheering up but he's sooo serious about his career.

I just find it so unfair that he's been rejected because of his gender. He almost more female than I am ffs!!

I know there are male midwives out there - where does he go from here?

Instyle- ok, fair enough, my comment may have sounded harsher than I meant it to be. I can understand that some women would be made uneasy by a male mw- victims of sexual abuse or those from cultures where men and women have less contact, for instance. I certainly wouldn't want to 'force' a woman to have someone with her who would make her uncomfortable.

But I do think it's equally wrong to say this guy shouldn't try to be a mw 'knowing he will be making a lot of women uneasy'- you're also guilty of assuming that many others share your view.

There is no choice anyway, because if there is a man on duty, there usually isnt anyone to replace them with, so you have to have the man whether you want it or not.

It may not be discrimination.For some jobs eg womens toilet attendant it would not be illegal to specify that the post had to be filled by a woman.
personally I don't think men should be midwives.

competent practitioner isnt gender specific.birth is art and science requiring competent practitioner of any gender

I'm fairly certain men are allowed to clean ladies toilets - hence the little signs saying 'This toilet is being cleaned by a male operative'.

BTW my male community midwife is lovely and looked after my babies and me brilliantly.

Gay men can be very negative about women's breasts and genitalia. Why would a gay man want to spend his day gazing at female genitalia? I think men of either sexual orientation wanting to do this is a bit odd. I'd feel similarly about women wanting to work with male genitalia, not that there's a direct comparison as urology covers female bladder and kidney problems as well as male urology problems.
Had I had a male midwife I'd have accepted it, but I would have wondered what was in it for him and probably wouldn't have felt as relaxed as with a woman. I wouldn't expect him to tell me of his sexuality and would hope he wasn't camp enough that it was obvious as I'm not into camp and find all the voices and mannerisms silly. I feel the same about male gynaecologists and am glad female ones are becoming more common.

There is a wonderful male midwife at Kendal hospital called Chris.

2rebecca I don't think that any man chooses to be a MW because he likes to look at bloody vaginas all day, what a ridiculous post.

some really odd views expressed here,is it so incomprehensible that a man may have vocational/employment issue in midwifery.this dirty sniggering inference that a man has ulterior stare at vagina motives is really more indicative of backward views of those saying it.than the man

this notion of birth as female goddess and attendants only is daft. a competent skilled registered clinician of any gender can be a midwife

I agree MamaG, 2rebecca's post is bizarre. Midwifery is about delivering babies not 'gazing at female genitalia'.

I had an absolutely fantastic experience giving birth to my son as my midwife was kind, skilled,really supportive-and also happened to be a man.

Can you imagine if a woman got a letter saying 'We are sorry we can not accept you on the course to become an electrician as we are only accepting gentlemen'

I'd get myself some legal if I were him. If they have some policy or some targets thet are bound to then by all means let's hear them.

Midwives spend a small percentage of time looking at vaginas. Most of my day is spent talking [to faces , talking on phones and writing. The actual vagina bit is confined to a certain time and place, and that is just one aspect of midwifery care.

It isn't so odd that men want to be midwives, lots of men feel awe and respect for the process of birthing, and the mechanics and the science are fascinating. There is loads of technology to get to grips with. Add to that the mental side of things, the psychology of birthing - it's a complex and challenging job/vocation that tests you on all fronts. Science meets caring meets biology meets medicine meets sociology meets psychology. I wonder more men don't do it.

not sure about this!its fishy. midwife applications go through UCAS.not individual hospital.you wouldn't normally receive such correspondence as they don t actually select or interview candidates .nor do they have ability to comment on gender or suitability

courses dont have gender bias-illegal
or quotas of male/ female- illegal

have you seen the letter?did it genuinely state "only ladies".that is erroneous gender isnt a barrier to midwife education

think this is a wind up

Treedelivery a man wanting to be a midwife is nothing at all like a woman wanting to be an electrician! Do you really think the empathy and sensitivity required in midiwfery is replicated in the electrical industry too???

Pozzled It's not only "victims of sexual abuse or those from cultures where men and women have less contact" who are uneasy about men they don't touching them in very intimate areas. I don't come into either of those categories - I just wouldn't like it. And I don't feel I'm being sexist, racist, homophobic or anything else by feeling that way.

This thread will naturally attract comments from women who've had great experiences with male midwives - good for them. But I imagine the vast majority of women would hate the idea. Even if it all turned out nice in the end. Are we not entitled to feel that way about such personal matters?

And, yes, I do think it is selfish of a man to push himself into midwifery just because he is "in awe of the birth experince". Why should women have to hide their feelings just to be PC and indulge his desires?

Did you read my post InStyle? I was pointing out that it is unnaceptable to claim a person is the wrong sex to do all but a very very very few jobs. None of which I can think of right now. I used the electrician scenario as an example so we could see the letter from a female point of view.

When I describe midwifery I think it is clear I see it as a complex role. I never mentioned anything about any parallels with the electrical industry!

But there is no earthly reason to bar a woman from being an electrician! If you got a rejection letter like that, you'd have every cause for complaint. Yet plenty of sensible debate exists about the role of men in childbirth. And the few men who apply to enter the profession can't be naive about that. So your analogy was poor.

instyle what a bizarre prejudicial post.your anecdotal musings are quite hysterical and full of emotive terms.you cannot speak for " i imagine the vast majority of women would hate the idea" yes you only imagine dont presume to speak for others.this notion if sinister predatory male would be midwife just lurking in labour suite is risible

I haven't been remotely hysterical. What are you on about "sinister, predatory would-be-midwife lurking in the labour suite". Did I say anything about male midwives being sinister or predatory? I said I didn't fancy the idea of it myself. Why are you making things up when we are trying to have an interesting debate?

I am rather hurt to be called bizarre, prejudicial, hysterical and risible for simply expressing what "I imagine" (sorry don't have stats to hand) to be a fairly common viewpoint.

I think my analogy was brilliant

I think most women just want someone to be kind to them. Be that male obstetrician, female obstetrician, male mental health nurse, female midwife, male healthcare assistant or indeed their electrician.

I have no research to hand to back this, but have had a fair bit of experience.

you infer male midwife have no business at birth or intimacy.you assert "selfish of a man to push himself into midwifery" selfish why?push is emotive do you presume bullying/aggression?do you presume sinister ulterior motives.is it incomprehensible to have academic/vocational/employment interest as male midwife

Just a question.... all those who wouldn't have a male midwife or think that male midwives shouldn't exist....

do these feelings extend to male obstetricians or male gynaecologists? After all they spend all day gazing at female genitalia too don't they?

Goodness, that's an awful lot of infering and presuming you're doing on my part!

No, I don't presume bullying, aggression or sinister motives at all. Those things never ocurred to me. I'm sorry if it's something you worry about or have encountered.

I suspect you are trying to corner me into an extreme view here. I'm not going to rise to it. I am fairly confident I am not alone in preferring a female midwife. Hardly a shocking revelation.

Glad you had a good birth experience if it was with a male midwife. That's great. I hope I get a female one, that's all

InStyle - it's usual practice, ime, to tell the labouring woman their midwife on shift is a man, and is this ok. Many will say no it's not, and that's ok. Just so you or anyone else doesn't worry.

Not ususally th ecase with labour ward medical staff, although requests for female Dr's in clinics are more easily met.

Cant believe some people on here are actually implying that blokes would get some sort of kick from seeing a womans bits during labour!

Bloody hells bells!!, dont they remember the blood, screams, poo!!, vomit and general grossness that comes outta every orifice??

Yeah i'm sure he'll go home and bash out a few remembering that !!!!!!

I wouldnt have given a toss if i'd had a male midwife, and i did have a male doctor who had to step in and deliver my daughter who thought it would be a giggle to come out with the cord round her neck!

I was too busy thanking the bloke afterward to think "shit he'll be having a wank later thinking about that"

instyle you bluster and puff but are avoidant on direct questioning.funny that!you make many broad statements without any substantiation

a skilled clinician,male or female,is capable of delivering a baby

majority of gynaecologists are male.they do not lack appointments.the good ones have long lists