to think that dog walkers should keep their dogs on a lead.

[orangetree]

Don't get me wrong. I love dogs. But I live on a farm, a footpath runs past the back of the house. Since November, 4 of my chickens have been killed or maimed by people who think that they can let their dogs run free simply because they are walking in the countryside. Again this afternoon a lady knocked on the door saying oops sorry but she thought the hen was only stunned. It will probably die. GRRRR

Some posters just ain't getting it are they?!

If a dog goes on to private land and kills chickens, or other livestock or damages the property in any way IT IS STILL CLEARLY THE DOG OWNERS FAULT!

It is not my responsibility to keep other people's dogs out of my garden. It is theirs. What's so hard to understand about that?!

Why can't the owners who have chosen to go near this field with their dogs just go somewhere else???

Why should the OP have a financila burden imposed on them because a dog owner can't keep a dog on a leash or under control.

How is it not the dog owners fault if the dog savages chickens, but it IS their fault if it savages children? HOw is the dog more or less under control in any situation.

If gun dogs are capeable of fetching back game without savaging them and are completely under control - yes I know a fully trained gun dog - why is it acceptable for some dogs to not be under the same control and if you know your dog is not to be trusted in, say, situations with livestock (like one of the former posts) then surely you have a responsibility to keep your dog on a leash and therefore under control. Selfish not to ...

financila obviously

whoops - FINANCIAL

But you know if you're going past/through a farm there is a chance you'll bump into some kind of livestock/bird and the OP has signs up warning of this. If you know there is even a tiny chance your usually fab at recall dog will ignore you then it's straight onto a lead, job done, chickens safe.

Why on earth should the OP have to fork out for fencing when people can't control their pets whilst on her farm? I think it is completely outrageous and find it very depressing, no wonder anti dog feeling keeps growing.

Put a sign up "Dog caught on my farm worrying my chickens will be shot!"

Soon stop 'em

Why when dogs are mentioned do people start banging on about children being attacked. Are not cars the biggest killer for kids? Everytime we talk about buying a new car etc do we start wondering how many children have been killed this year by cars?

I dont disagree that the dogs should be kept on the lead if a sign so asks, however the OPS sign doesnt work does it? So what is the other solution?

I think SOME (def not all) dog owners just seem to think that having dogs means they can do whatever they like, walk where ever they want and not give a fig about anyone or anything else, but I am sure that these same people would be just the same about life in general even if they didn't have dogs...

OP did you charge the dog owner for the hen / meds for the hen (hope she's OK)?

I don't understand why people are banging on about cats going into gardens, cars killing children, whether the OP should put up 4 foot fencing, 6 foot fencing, etc etc...... these are all rather pathetic attempts to ignore the central issue here.

thedogsgottago - the onus isn't on the OP to make anything 'work'! She is not the one causing a nuisance and harm to anybody/anything else.

The solution is for dog owners to put their bloody dog on a lead.

Although by now if I were the OP I'd be seriously thinking about shooting them. (The dogs, not the owners, though I can see she may be sorely tempted......)

Is it OK for people to bang on about children being savaged though? Or is it just whatever I bang on about that you object to?
I have clearly stated that I agree that the dogs should be kept on the lead if a sign states, Im just giving an opinion on what should be done if people ignore/dont see the sign. But if you think a better solution to putting up a fence is to carry a gun, then good for you.

I think the best solution is for dog owners to read the bloody signs and take a few seconds to put the dog on a lead.

If I were the OP, living on a farm with livestock, then yes, I would probably shoot any dog which came onto the land and savaged my livestock. Cheaper than putting up and maintaining secure fencing around whole fields, and definitely the more effective solution!

Noooooooooo thedogsgottago you are so missing the point. Dog owners should have better control of their dogs, we shouldn't need to dog proof the whole countryside so little rover can get his walk without killing anything.

Im not missing the point, the OP states that they are in a garden and sometimes a field that already have a fence, fix the fence.
Im not suggesting every field in the country has a fence.
We all protect our property from damage, theft, whatever, a fence around some chickens surely isnt that ridiculous?

Yes thedogsgottago it is an absolutely ridiculous suggestion. My close neighbours have a very large free-range chicken farm, many acres, it used to be dairy but because of foot and mouth they lost the lot. For them to put a 6 foot dog proof fence around all their fields would be madness, why would they spoil our countryside and beautiful views because some people can?t look after their dogs properly.

Why stop at chicken fields, why not fence cow fields, pigs and sheep pastures!!

Don?t know why you can?t understand this,

I thought I should come back to this as I seem to have caused a lot of the controversy on this thread.

The rules are clear. You don't have to put your dog on a lead on country paths unless 1. wild bird breeding season 2. you are in the vicinity of livestock 3. your dog cannot be kept under close control off the lead.

Clearly the dogs on this path are all in the vicinity of livestock and some of them cannot be kept under close control off the lead.

So yes, the dogs should be on the lead. Not everywhere in rural areas, but on the section of path by the OP's property they should be. Clearly dog owners should abide by the rules.

In reality, this will not happen. The Op can't negotiate this as it involves lots of people, many of whom she cannot identify. So the OP needs to do something.

Shooting is not really an option because there are lots of rules around it, involving whether or not the dog owner is/is not present, can/cannot be identified, can/cannot get the dog back under control when challenged by the farmer, the regulations and issue purposes of the individual firearms certificate. Even if the OP is vindicated in a court case when she shoots someone's dog, I doubt she really wants to go to court or shoot dogs.

So the common sense solution is to either move the chickens, improve the fence, or change the wording of the sign to something people will take notice of. I would personally go for a sign saying something like: 'Number of chickens killed or maimed by dogs off leads past this point: 17 (or however many). You must put your dog on the lead in the vicinity of livestock.' I would also go out and talk to dog walkers, particularly those who have got dogs on leads, and ask them to speak to other dog walkers they meet on the walk about the problem. The Op may already have done this, and have harsher signs; I don't know.

I think working through the well behaved owners is a better way of approaching it, because it will make the non-lead users feel policed on the walk, which the OP cannot do alone. The public are not out to get farmers; myself and my neighbours have put livestock back in fields, phone if we see a lamb struggling, speak to people misusing rights of way etc.

It is similar to car drivers parking illegally. I put DD in a reflective safety vest. Morally and legally I don't have to. Morally and legally cars shouldn't turn around on my land, or park in no parking zones next to DD's school, but they do.

What the OP can practically do is more important than legal and moral positions that cannot be enforced in her predicament.

Orangetree
I've read most of the thread, and sorry if I missed it, but does the sign just say "Keep dogs on leads"
or, does it say " Loose chickens (or something) please keep dogs on lead"

Just an example, but I know that if there was a generic sign, and I couldn't see any reason for it, I may ignore it, But if i knew there were chickens, or some animal that may be at risk, I would put them on the lead. My terrier/border collie/something would be terrified of a chicken. My greyhound however.....

millyr - you said you've never seen chickens in unfenced fields. I assumed you meant you'd never seen any in fields that aren't fenced off from any public access. I was saying that I have. I can't be sure but I guess that the complete absence of fences (apart from the odd bit of barbed wire) anywhere at all near us indicates that they're actually not allowed - national park with very strict planning rules. seriously there just aren;t any fences at all. walls (even more expensive) yes, but dog and chicken proof fences? no.

Have I suggested your neighbour puts a fence around acres of farmland? No, I have suggested the OP fixes the fence around her garden. Its not the same.
I have said already that fences should not be erected around every field in teh country. That would be ridiculous, but a fence around a garden?
How do most garden chicken owners protect their chickens?

How many? In my experience some do, some don't.

And that's science, that is.

Hatwoman - I was referring to (and think I said) chickens next to right of way used as a a dog walk. My brother lives next door to a farm that doesn't fence its chickens, but it is not on a right of way.

I am not now denying the existence of unfenced chickens by dog walking areas, as a number of people on this thread have said otherwise!

millyR - I too was referring to chickens next to a right if way used as a dog walk.

but anyway not that relevant! I gree with your practical suggestion to OP.

she's not a garden chicken owner. she lives on a farm.

don't know about where the OP lives but there are often restrictions on the type and height of fencing permitted on agricultural land - stock fencing for example, is not very dog-proof
(my springer can scale a 6' wall or fence easily, where in the countryside could you lawfully enclose land to that height?)

am in the camp that anyone could think it was ok to let a dog run wild onto private land, or that it is the land owner's responsibility to control other people's dogs

it sort of makes me want to unleash a whole load of naughty dogs into their garden and see how the like it?

Imo the dogs are the owners responsibility and no one elses but the chickens are also their owners responsibility and no one elses. She owns the chickens and so therefore has a responsibility to them to make them safe so that they cannot get attacked by dogs. The owners of the dogs however also have a responsibilty to keep their dog under control, so that they do not attack the chickens.
Think it is a case ofboth sides showing some responsibility!

Dogs should be on a lead in the vicinity of a farm, any country person should know that. It's courtesy and common sense anyway.

countryside code

OP, if you aren't prepared to shoot the dogs, and you would be within your right to, I would try making the signs near the path more prominent.