to think that dog walkers should keep their dogs on a lead.

[orangetree]

Don't get me wrong. I love dogs. But I live on a farm, a footpath runs past the back of the house. Since November, 4 of my chickens have been killed or maimed by people who think that they can let their dogs run free simply because they are walking in the countryside. Again this afternoon a lady knocked on the door saying oops sorry but she thought the hen was only stunned. It will probably die. GRRRR

So how can the dogs get in if the feral cats can't?

Chickens tend to be a match for cats. I don't think she meant she kept them out.
Good thing you don't keep horses in that field really

ocdgirl - thank god for people like you who restore my faith in dog owners! It must drive responsible people like you made when some people post ridiculous things like 'ooh it's the dog's instinct' 'he can't help it', 'he can't read the signs' etc!

When my son was about 3, his instinct was to run up and down the supermarket aisle weaving in and out of other shoppers, knocking down toilet rolls and grabbing the chocolate. So I kept him in the trolley.

Sorted.

• mad not made!

bronze you are correct.! The chickens are quite aggressive towards the cats.

orangetree - my sympathies to you.

when i was a child we lived down the dog walking road that led onto the woods. It was a nightmare - I cannot describe how unpleasant it is to tread in dog poo while wearing flip flops...(vomiting emoticom)

The loving dog owners would reach the top of this unmade road and just let their dogs off the lead - it was only about 500 yards to the woods, but they seemed to think it was perfectly OK for the dogs to run all over what was very obviously someones front garden (flower beds, driveway, very small entrance etc, children trying to dodge the poos and play...) and do whatever they liked - urinating, digging, pooing, ripping up plants and all the other lovely doggy things

It used to drive my mum insane - how hard would it be to either clear up the mess, or just control the dogs until they did get onto a bit of appropriate land to do all their lovely doggie things? We all became dab hands at mixing jeyes fluid and clearing up OTHER PEOPLES DOGS' SHIT as we grew older and the total lack of consideration from some, not all, dog owners has put me off dogs (unless they are useful working ones) for life.

The owners would just smile or ignore you while their animals messed all over our property. Now, should WE have been the responsible party and fenced in our entire front garden with 6ft high fencing and electric gates to prevent the anti-social, albeit natural behaviour of a few dogs, or should the owners have been a bit more responsible and considerate?

Obviously it has scared me for life but SOME dog owners are just really, really thoughtless.

If you had sheep in the field I think you would be within your rights to shoot any dogs that were worrying them...I take my hats off to responsible dog owners and say a MASSIVE thank you for clearing up after your pets and keeping them under control/on a leash as appropriate.

Anyone who doesn't have their dog under close control when approaching a farmhouse/yard is asking for trouble. Apart from the fact its entirely normal for farms to have poultry roaming on their property, quite a lot have farm dogs. Working, 'outside' dogs who are likely to guard their property and the livestock. They are often chained so absolutely no problem if your dog is securely to heel (by lead or good training) but if it is fool enough to approach the farm dog it may get more than it bargained for. And it will be no-ones fault but your own. We are always extremely cautious on footpaths through farms. (We walk in the country a lot).

I think it is absolutely wonderful that this country has such a good network of public footpaths - in a lot of countries this issue simply wouldn't arise because you wouldn't be allowed anywhere near the farm in the first place.

Be grateful for the access we have and control your dog around places where there is likely to be livestock. Its extraordinarily simple.

British people are mental when it comes to dogs. IME pets that kill livestock get shot.

I assumed you mentioned the fact you had 11 large feral cats that would kill the chickens if they had a chance because they couldn't get in, so not entirely sure of the relevance now?

A farmer near me shot a dog for chasing ewes and lambs. The dog died and he then charged the dog owner fot the bullets he used. The farmer was within his rights to shoot the dog and the owner of corse devastated but was his stupid falt and the blood is on his hands

Orangetree, YANBU at all.

I can't believe that people think you should have a better fence!!

Orangetree, YANBU and as pointed out, are backed by the law.

I've got a 7 month dog and am working my backside off training her. She was until yesterday going off lead and being recalled if we saw a person/dog/jogger/bike/horse and anything else I can think of, then she goes by on my terms.

Yesterday there was an incident. We met up with a lab pup of much the same age and they became a complete nightmare and would not come back and jumped up at a gentleman out for a walk. He kicked my dog and I finally did get her back. Completely my fault and I'm mortified. From now on she's on a long line until her recall is 100%, which clearly it isn't atm.

I expect other dog owners to make sure that if their dog is off lead and mine is on that their dog doesn't approach mine if it is obvious that I am training her to ignore. Depressingly this doesn't seem to happen much. And even more annoyingly, someone has had a go at DH when she's been on lead, an off lead dog approached her and she started trying to jump on the dog.

Also, I keep hearing comments from other owners such as walkers should expect to be jumped on by dogs if they walk in places they know dogs are walked and things like that, they don't seem to get not everyone likes dogs and should be able to go about their business with out being bothered. I'm forever seeing joggers hassled by dogs, it must really hack them off and they seem to really appreciate it when they go past and my dog is made to wait.

Recently near us, a dog off the lead had a go at a horse which caused the rider to come off and she's broken her back. And I'm hacked off with the number of people who don't clear up after their dogs.

Dog ownership has been a bit of an eye opener for me. I've met some fab people with some really gorgeous, well trained dogs, but I have met some complete idiots who clearly don't think about other people at all. Thankfully they are the minority.

BitOfFun - are you for real?????????? For Xst sake, the country lanes are not solely for hounds, of various descriptions and temperaments, to flounce about, hope you can understand that, well, try.
I would hate to see one sprinting towards me or my children, hapless owner squealing, "Heel, Misty, heel!"
If the dog is properly trained and controlled by its owner then by all means, let if off the lead. However, if the said canine couldn't care less about the owners commands and chases all things moving at will, then no, it should not be off lead. Ever. End of.

can you imagine what the responses would be if this was about a dog that had come careering into someone's garden and hurt a child? whilst I'm not, for a second, equating hurting a chicken and hurting a child, the underlying principle is actually in effect the same. we're all entitled to peaceful and safe enjoyment of our private property. failure to build fences does not make the property owner to blame for anything that happens when a person - or their pet - trespasses. Also I think some people may be forgetting that decent fences are hugely expensive as well as having other impacts on our property, including blocking views, access outwards, and limiting what i can only describe as our connection to the wider landscape. that last one in particular might sound wishy-washy but it's something most of us in the country value very highly.

grimma is absolutely right about approaching farms - and about the fact that we should value and respect our public footpaths - which are, of course, mostly across private property.

WynkenBlynkenandNod I wish more owners were like you. My DD had a dog jump all over her when we were walking to school when she was small and it freaked her out about dogs for a LONG time - the owner didn't apologise as the dog was 'just being friendly' but as the dog was the same size/larger than my dd at the time it was VERY OTT. Plus, ANY dog, even a well trained one can bite someone. They could be unwell/startled by something etc, so no dog is 100% non-biting. They can be as unpredictable as people at times imo.

No one is saying that it's the OP's fault, of course the responsibility lies with the dog owners but there will always be rubbish dog owners who don't care what the dog is doing, or has no control over the dog.
These same dog owners open their front doors and let the dog out to walk itself.

It's for this reason the OP should make the fences more secure if she wants to protect her chickens.
If I kept chickens I would have to, because to leave it up to other people to make sure the chickens are safe is no good really, a lot of people are idiots and have no sense.

My dog has excellent recall but I never walk her off lead on footpaths and don't go near farms.
She is let off in areas that are safe as much as possible from cars, other animals etc.
And I would be horrified and devastated if she killed a chicken.

someone lower down said it was equal blame.

Thankyou for a lively discussion and for calming me down! I didn't realise what an emotive issue it is!. Just to let you know, today's maimed hen is looking much happier. She can't walk properly, but is very much enjoying the climate of my spare room as opposed to a cold shed for the night..... (just in case anyone wondered how she is)

I think it is very misleading for people to be comparing farm land to people's gardens. We all have the right to roam over many areas of farm land that are owned by other people. Owning acres of land is very different to owning a small private garden.

I do not know what the access rights are to your farmland, but obviously lots of uncultivated farm land is legally accessible to the public. If your land is not legally accessible, you need to put up signs saying so. It is going to be confusing to people if it is adjacent to public rights of way, and so you need to put up clearer signs.

I keep chickens. I think you are very foolish to keep chickens in an unsecured area that is near to a public path where people walk dogs.

You are legally right that dogs should be on the lead when in a field that has farm animals in it, but they do not need to be on a lead on the footpath apart from a few months a year if wild birds breed there. But no sensible farmer would keep chickens so near to a dog walk.

Also, to the point out the blindingly obvious, if dogs can get in, your chickens can get out, and be killed on the path.

Like most problems on AIBU, there is no point jumping up and down about the law. To keep problems to a minimum, both landowners and the public need to act in a sensible way.

I thought that NO farmland was 'legally accessible' to the public and that the public footpaths and rights of way were the only part of the land you were supposed to walk on and access IYSWIM.

Farmers and landowners tend to (understandably) get knarled off when folk wander all over their crops and fields and mess them all up...

IMO land is land - whether it's acres and acres of land, or a front garden...both should be respected and cared for by the people who use them.

Dog on your property and maiming or killing your chickens/children/guineapigs?
Shoot it.

bb99, you can read up on what land is and is not accessible on the Rambler's association website.

There is a very long history of the fight for people's rights to access land in this country. If people hadn't been doing that for 100's of years, we wouldn't be able to walk anywhere apart from parks and pavements. Beaches, heaths, moors and so on are all owned by someone.

Milly R if you had read the thread properly you would see that A. there ARE signs up. B. these dogs were some distance off the footpath.
Dogs that are not able to be controlled should be on a lead whatever the time of year.
As for no sensible farmer would keep chickens so near to a dog walk???? What planet are you on ??? should they also not grow crops next to the footpath in case people let their dogs roam on them and trash them??

I think also that you should have a look at the countryside code. There are a huge amount of acres that you are NOT allowed to roam over, precisely because irresponsible dog owners allow their dogs to disrupt wildlife, run through and damage crops. I also keep chickens, I expect to protect them from predators but not from other peoples dogs.

Also the rules regarding control of dogs apply to areas that come under Right to Roam as well as those not. If you are treating all land as right to roam then you are trespassing and are being very irresponsible IMO

By onagar Sat 09-Jan-10 16:20:38

If a dog is not taught to see people as pack-mates or whatever then when it gets hungry enough it will eat them (if small enough)

What utter bollocks