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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think that dog walkers should keep their dogs on a lead.

157 replies

orangetree · 09/01/2010 15:09

Don't get me wrong. I love dogs. But I live on a farm, a footpath runs past the back of the house. Since November, 4 of my chickens have been killed or maimed by people who think that they can let their dogs run free simply because they are walking in the countryside. Again this afternoon a lady knocked on the door saying oops sorry but she thought the hen was only stunned. It will probably die. GRRRR

OP posts:
Original poster
orangetree · 09/01/2010 15:41

Bit if Fun - you can control any breed if you put it on a lead when a sign asks you to

OP posts:
violethill · 09/01/2010 15:41

Of course there's a limit to how far you can control some breeds. That's why you keep it on a lead if you can't be sure it won't run onto someone's property! Isn't rocket science!

fledtoscotland · 09/01/2010 15:41

"It's perfectly natural for dogs to hunt and kill small living things like chickens and toddlers. That's why if you want a dog you have to have it under control." - totally wrong. my youngest dog, a collie, was totally scared by the chickens on the farm when we were on holiday.

YABU to expect all dogs to be on the lead.

YANBU to expect dogs to keep off your property but it is your responsibility to ensure that all boundaries are properly maintained.

EdgarAllenSnow · 09/01/2010 15:45

if i find a strange dog in my garden, i generally think 'i should fix the fence' not..'their dog should be under better control'...

but then do you wany to solve the problem, or complain about it?

some people on my road keep chickens/rabbits. they have good fences, rather than problems....

skihorse · 09/01/2010 15:45

I'm sorry but I think YABU.

It's your duty to protect your property/livestock with decent fencing. I spent 20k (euros) on fencing for my own house to keep my privacy. My choice.

My terrier nipped under a fence along a footpath about 18 months ago (a foxhole) and killed a chicken before I even realised what was happening. I went around to the door absolutely mortified to apologise. I thought that's what people did - apologise for something which had gone wrong... are you saying you'd prefer it if this woman hadn't apologised?

violethill · 09/01/2010 15:46

If I found a strange dog in my garden I'd be fecking pissed off with the owner!

Original poster
orangetree · 09/01/2010 15:48

thankyou violethill!

OP posts:
EdgarAllenSnow · 09/01/2010 15:50

incidentally, my house also backs onto a public footpath. not a problem if you have a good fence.

minimu · 09/01/2010 15:57

I can't believe what people think here - are they being serious?

That if someones elses dog comes into my garden it is my fault because of the lack of fencing!!!!!!!

Oh if a burglar comes into my house it is my fault he broke in?

Dogs should be kept undercontrol at all times. That may mean different things for different dogs some may need to be on a lead some may have excellent recall.

There is no way that a dog can go onto someones property and kill a chicken and it be the fault of the chickens owner. It is up to the dog owner to keep there dog under control at all times in every situation.

I myself have 5 dogs and if they ever did this I would be devastated but I can assure you that it would not happen as I am always vigilant when walking my dogs.

minimu · 09/01/2010 15:58

sorry their dog

Original poster
orangetree · 09/01/2010 15:59

EdgarAllenSnow - one of these dogs was 100 yards away, round the corner (ie got in through my front gate while I was unloading my shopping). Is that still my fault?

OP posts:
SomeGuy · 09/01/2010 16:00

Yes they should. My mother was knocked down from behind by a dog which broke her leg so badly they had to operate on it. I'm not sure whether she will ever recover fully. The owners ran off.

This was on a marked path, the exact sort of place a dog should be on a lead.

midori1999 · 09/01/2010 16:02

yes minimu, precisely.

Perhaps tha ttitude of the majority of posters on this thread gives a clue as to why there are so many out of control dogs all over the place.

If your dog does not have an excellent recall it shouldn't be off the lead, simple. It is as much of a danger to the dog as anyone or anything else. In the eyes of the law, you are responsible for your dog an dwhat it does. If it escapes from yuor garden and causes a car accident, you are legally liable. If it gets into a garden and kills someones chickens, the law would see you responsible aswell.

Original poster
orangetree · 09/01/2010 16:03

Also , minimu, thankyou for your support! Am off to nurse my poor little chicken back to health........

OP posts:
onagar · 09/01/2010 16:03

lissielou, How did you think animals got fed the wild. There isn't a tree that grows tins of dog food you know.

BitOfFun, if I invite visitors with toddlers I will put anything I don't want them touching out of reach.

But your uninvited dog is not MY problem it is yours. If you can't cope then get a goldfish.

MadamDeathstare · 09/01/2010 16:04

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

kinnies · 09/01/2010 16:05

I would be if a dog got into my garden and killed my chickens!

You should demand the dog owner pays for any damage.

Yep it is fine for some dogs to be off lead, but owners need to take responsability for their animals. This is why my dog is never off lead. He would have a great time charging about and I would not have to walk so far with him but I dont compleatly trust he would come back when called if he saw a cat or somthing.

I would make your fence more secure though as there is always so twit who will not give a dam about other peoples rights and just do whats easier for them.

OracleInaCoracle · 09/01/2010 16:08

onagar, im not an idiot you know it was the toddler bit that i took objection to. not all dogs will try to hunt and attack small children ffs.

bedlambeast · 09/01/2010 16:11

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

OracleInaCoracle · 09/01/2010 16:15

maybe (and i accept that this may be rather controversial) both sides are equally right/wrong. yes, it is the owners responsibility to ensure their dog is under control, but it is also the livestock breeders responsibilty to ensure that the area is secure.

violethill · 09/01/2010 16:16

Thank you for the voice of reason bedlambeast!

I sometimes wonder what planet some people live on!

It's the legal aspect that's central here. You can have whatever opinion you like about it, but the fact is, if you choose to own a dog, it is your responsibility to keep it under control. End of. For some dogs that may mean a lead in any public place. For other dogs, it may mean other forms of control. But it is always the owner's responsibility, not anybody elses!

Vallhala · 09/01/2010 16:18

Under the circumstances YANBU. If you were to suggest that dogs should be kept on a lead in general, you would be being very unreasonable.

Kinnies, I find your practice of never allowing your dog offlead very sad and imho unkind. Is there nowhere which is secure enough to which you could take him?

onagar · 09/01/2010 16:20

lissielou, I know dogs don't bite children every day, but they do it often enough.

We acclimatise dogs to people and teach them not to bite them. We then keep them well fed.

If a dog is not taught to see people as pack-mates or whatever then when it gets hungry enough it will eat them (if small enough) This is not the dogs fault in any way.

You can even keep dogs around chickens and other livestock if you train them well enough, but you do have to train them or keep them on a lead.

hatwoman · 09/01/2010 16:21

OT - out of interest did any of the dog owners offer to recompense you? like others here I think it's unreasonable to expect all dogs to be on a lead at all times (and depite your thread title I suspect you think that too)but I don't think it's unreasonable that all dogs be under control (and like someone else has said, that means different things for different dogs). I walk close to farm animals most days with my dog - and if he ever harmed one (whether on a public footpath, in a field with a path through it, or in someone's garden) I would be devastated, would consider it wholly my fault and would offer both an apology and compensation. I would feel doubly bad if it was in someone's garden/private property.

SoupDragon · 09/01/2010 16:23

I've regularly had other people's dogs in the garden. Between us, we simply fixed the fences.

YABU to expect all dogs to be on a lead
YANBU to expect your chickens to be safe but you should have fences that dogs can't get through.

"the countryside code asks that dogs are kept under close supervision. Where there are livestock about this means on a lead. "

Actually no, it doesn't mean they should be on a lead, it means they should be under control. When walking through a field of cows/calves, you are better to have the dog off the lead and under control. If the cows see the dog as a threat to their calves, they will stampede and whereas an unleashed dog will out run them, one on a lead will simply lead the cows to you. There was a recent incident with a Vet from Manchester way [vague] where she was trampled to death by cows for just this reason.