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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think that dog walkers should keep their dogs on a lead.

157 replies

orangetree · 09/01/2010 15:09

Don't get me wrong. I love dogs. But I live on a farm, a footpath runs past the back of the house. Since November, 4 of my chickens have been killed or maimed by people who think that they can let their dogs run free simply because they are walking in the countryside. Again this afternoon a lady knocked on the door saying oops sorry but she thought the hen was only stunned. It will probably die. GRRRR

OP posts:
MillyR · 09/01/2010 19:52

I am not treating all land as right to roam. There are many different types of land and different laws controlling access to them. The OP's land is, by her own admission, adjacent to land which is open to the public in some sense.

I clearly said in my most that I did not know the status of the OP's land, as she hasn't specified; it is highly likely that she is keeping chickens on uncultivated land.

I have lived in rural areas for almost all of my life, but in various parts of the country. I have never known anyone keep unfenced chickens within 200 yards of a dog walk; it is absurd.

elvislives · 09/01/2010 20:18

I researched this subject when my neighbours refused to repair or replace their fence. The law is very clear: it is the responsibility of the dog owner to keep the animal under control at all times.

A read of the newest Dangerous Dogs Act is very enlightening, and quite chilling, because basically as a dog owner (and I am one) you have zero rights and loads of responsibilities. Any complaint against your dog and you are guilty until proven innocent. Please read it if you haven't already.

It also drives me mad when walking my dog on a lead to be constantly approached by off-lead dogs who are under no control whatsoever.

coleslaw · 09/01/2010 20:28

Milly R - do you think it is equally absurd to allow your dog to roam 50 to 100 yards away from you? Not all uncultivated land is part of right to roam. Half an acre as described (horse field so NOT part of right to roam). I think you should check your facts. DO YOU consider a dog that is allowed to attack chickens or wild life or any other animal to be under control then? I think you are being absurd. Perhaps the OP has nowhere else to keep them . She has stated it is on a farm. It is therefore not part of the right to roam. Furthermore dogs should be kept under control wherever they are.

MillyR · 09/01/2010 20:39

Right to roam land is usually farm land; that is obvious to anyone who has walked on it in large parts of England. It has livestock on it! So I really have no idea what you can be referring to. Do you think that all those sheep over the fells or the Pennines are just there as a tourist attraction? it is right to roam and working farm land.

The other things you are accusing me of are not things I said. I don't think dogs should be attacking the OP's chickens but I think there are ways that she could meet the public half way to avoid suffering to her animals. Just common sense really.

Original poster
orangetree · 09/01/2010 20:50

Hi MillyR. Just to let you know that none of the land within about a 20 mile radius of my chickens is right to roam. The chickens are mainly in my garden, there is half an acre of field they can roam in as well. The dog today was 50 to 100 yards away from its owner and not on a lead as requested by the signs that are a good distance away. There is a fence dicating the boundary - the footpath is wide and extremely well maintained (though I say so Myself!) I am merely voicing my opinion that it would be really nice if people could respect the signs, control their dog for the 5 minutes it would take to get past both my chickens and the wild ducks further up the Path. I suspect that the Rambler's association would agree with the wish that footpath walkers respected the countryside and others who use it/ live in it. You really should check out the rules re Right to Roam - you will be surprised what is not in it.

OP posts:
MillyR · 09/01/2010 20:57

Hi Orangetree, I am familar with right to roam, and I don't llive on right to roam land myself, so am aware that lots of land isn't. I am probably in a fairly similar situation to you, in that I am near the Pennine way, so a public right of way, but not in a right to roam open land area.

I absolutely agree with you that dogs should not be killing your chickens, or off the lead near your chickens. But the reality is that there always will be dog walkers who will not be sensible, and these are very often people visiting from elsewhere who don't think things through.

Ultimately you have to deal with the killed or maimed chickens, not the dog walker, and it is awful having to deal with a sick chicken.

Merrylegs · 09/01/2010 21:05

YANBU.

Dogs should be on leads on public footpaths, countryside or otherwise. Because a public footpath should be a safe place for everybody to walk on and some people don't appreciate dogs bounding up to them, no matter how friendly and waggy.

And while we're on the subject, just because the footpath is in the countryside, it doesn't mean the dog poo magically disappears. It doesn't. It stays there unless you bag it up and take it away.

People live in the countryside too and are fed up with it being used as a dog toilet. I live up a country lane. People drive to the end, park in the lay by, walk their dog up, let it poo. And go home again empty handed. Lovely.

(I am a dog owner btw).

MillyR · 09/01/2010 21:09

Kennel club advice for dog owners:

www.thekennelclub.org.uk/item/248

nooka · 09/01/2010 21:12

The right to roam doesn't include the right to let your animals kill or harass the livestock of the farmer though. If you or your pet kills or damages livestock you are liable to prosecution (it is a very small fine though, as the law was enacted in the 50s) and should at the very least pay full compensation.

The regulation about animals at large only applies to fields with sheep, but I think people are being very foolish not to put their dogs on a lead or under very close control near a farmyard, as they can be quite dangerous places (fierce guard dogs, chemicals, equipment etc, plus interesting things like dead animals, feedstock, and slurry) and are not where you want your dog to wander. Plus I think people should be sensitive to the poor people who live in the farm, as it can be very intrusive to have people wander around/shout at their dogs etc, let alone the worry about the safety of their livestock/the walkers.

Where we used to live one of the local footpaths ended being very securely fenced in to stop the walkers from wandering where they shouldn't. There were also a couple of instances of dogs being shot nearby for sheep worrying (perfectly legal if you can prove it).

OP is it worth asking the council if there are any grants etc available for fencing the footpath? It might be a cheaper option in any case (presumably just the one stretch).

GrimmaTheNome · 09/01/2010 21:58

The 'right to roam' doesn't mean dogs have a right to roam uncontrolled so I'm not sure what it has to do with the issue anyway. Some of the areas opened up to ramblers near us (Forest of Bowland) explicitly exclude dogs - presumably because of nesting birds.

hatwoman · 09/01/2010 22:54

mmilyR - there's a farm near us where the public footpath goes through a small field near the house - they keep chickens in that field. I've seen it elsewhere too

GrimmaTheNome · 10/01/2010 00:22

Chickens in fields are commonplace. Not so common as one would wish, but its entirely normal. Its bizarre to suggest they should be behind dog-proof fences all day.

Hope the hen in the spare room has a good night, orange!

MillyR · 10/01/2010 00:34

Of course chickens in fields are commonplace; mine are in a field. It is hardly rocket science to put a fence around a field.

violethill · 10/01/2010 10:05

By the same argument, it's hardly rocket science to put your dog on a lead!

The OP has now clarified that her chickens are on private property, about 20 miles away from any land that is 'right to roam' (which still wouldn't entitle dog owners to let their animals kill or maim her chickens anyway!)

Whether anyone else would choose to put up a particular type of fence is not the issue here. The OP isn't complaining that she's losing her chickens to foxes because she hasn't secured them well enough, she is complaining because other people aren't controlling their dogs.

I think the discussion about fencing is a bit worrying because it seems to be an attempt to 'fudge' the issue, and make it a grey area where the landowner may be partially responsible. And it isn't. It is absolutely clear that it's the dog owner's responsibility.

bedlambeast · 10/01/2010 11:19

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

thedogsgottago · 10/01/2010 11:35

Could all cat owners keep their cats off my garden please? No? Oh!

violethill · 10/01/2010 11:38

Yes, that's bloody annoying too thedogsgottago.

Not an argument for allowing dogs to be out of control though.

MitchyInge · 10/01/2010 11:41

yanbu

thought dogs HAD to be kept on lead on public footpaths, esp. through farmland

am disgusted that people think you should keep your chickens locked away because some dog walkers are too feckless to get their dog back on the lead when passing your property

by same token is ok for some breeds to worry sheep too then, is it?

thedogsgottago · 10/01/2010 11:55

I can understand the OPs POV however, alot of well trained dogs who have good recall in common situations such as children, roads, footballs, gardens etc will still ignore its owner when faced with a load of chickens, it may be the dog owners responsibilty, but a good fence would put a stop to it, because if the signs arnt working that it is surely the only solution?
At the end of the day there will always be people who ignore the sign, or simply dont see the sign.

RedTartanLass · 10/01/2010 12:05

FFS ? Get a better fence if you're that bothered about the chickens?

I have only read the first 20-30 post, but let me get this straight it is the OP?s fault that dogs came into her garden and killed and mutilated her chickens, because her fence wasn't high enough? I read it all now! Bloody hell you are all mad!

So if you live in a town and a dog comes into your garden and kills your kids' wee bunnies and guinea pigs and savages your children then it is your fault for not having a big enough fence? Just weird

bb99 · 10/01/2010 12:07

Milly R - yes I agree that public access is really important, but you don't have access to the whole field, you have access to the right of way - the footpath. Personally I have challenged farmers who have overploughed footpaths and taken down stiles, but you do not have free access to the entire piece of land, just the path you are entitled to walk on.

Farmers and landowners have every right to expect people trotting accross their land to KEEP TO THE PATHS and people living adjacent or owning land adjacent to footpaths and rights of ways, including everyone whol lives in a property with a front garden - which are generally adjacent to FOOTPATHS and public rights of way, have every right to not expect people or animals to access their private land...

RedTartanLass · 10/01/2010 12:11

have calmed down and read the other posts and.... whew most people agree with OP, can't remember the last time mnet made me so angry having had severla years experience on what threads to avoid!

thedogsgottago · 10/01/2010 12:12

If theres a dog that breaks into gardens and "savages children" then clearly its the dog owners fault, but we are not talking about children we are talking about chickens, just the sort of thing a dog would chase, whether intent on killing or just for fun, the OPs signs are not working: get a fence.

WidowWadman · 10/01/2010 12:16

If a dog is caught worrying sheep the farmer has the right to shoot it. Wonder where the law stands on chicken.

RedTartanLass · 10/01/2010 12:17

thedogsgottag, dogs don't chase children?
Fence a whole field so that dogs can't get in?

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